Sorry, but that's funny as heck!
No, I'm not laffing that you are losing money to those jackals. Keep on givin' 'em hell!
It's all over for NYSE
- Thread starter Mecro
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No, I'm not laffing that you are losing money to those jackals. Keep on givin' 'em hell!
I still like the NYSE but I did get whacked today too. 30cent slippage on my stop. That was the worst slippage from a stop I've ever had. He moved it down printed a couple prints and then it went right back up...eventually it did melt down with the market but 30cent slip? geezus...and the stop order had been in there for at least 3 hours.
The Nasdaq is totally controlled by computer programs. It is virtually impossible to ever be on the inside market without a flood of ECN programs joining your bid/offer.
The funniest thing about the Naz is that the "Market Makers" very rarely actually make a market. They leave that job to the black boxes.
Just wanted to give you a little insight into the Naz so you don't think that the grass is so much greener. I've said it before, you gotta pick your poison....either battle a criminal specialist or battle computer programs.
I like to do both
Keep your chin up and preserve your capital until you see some better opportunities. Best of luck.
Volume
The funniest thing about the Naz is that the "Market Makers" very rarely actually make a market. They leave that job to the black boxes.
Just wanted to give you a little insight into the Naz so you don't think that the grass is so much greener. I've said it before, you gotta pick your poison....either battle a criminal specialist or battle computer programs.
I like to do both
Keep your chin up and preserve your capital until you see some better opportunities. Best of luck.
Volume
I also like NYSE's trendiness and the ability to get used to the different styles specialists exhibit. It's been hard for me to start playing with Naz just because I'm so used to reading the tape.
However, no one can deny the consistently deteriorating trading conditions of NYSE. Forget the wonder years of 99-00 or the era of bullet scalping. I'm talking about just from Jan 2004, week to week period. With this trend, just what is one to expect?
someone or people found an edge over you. don't think they broke a rule. accept it. stop b'ing. get better than those who are screwing you or else get out. the day i get snuffed out i won't ever trade again. but i do whatever i can to figure a way so that never happens.
lights
love me two times girl one for tomorrow one just for today
Have you seen the new commercial NYSE came out with, all about how they're changing to better serve the individual investor? What a joke.
The stuff you're talking about takes me back a few years ago to when I traded equities, before I switched to futures. Sounds like things have only gotten worse. I'm sure there's plenty of games played in the Eminis as well, but it souns alot better than what you're up against there.
The funny thing is, whenever I talk to someone about price manipulation, they immediately get defensive, and say that noone can control the market like that. Maybe not the whole market, but they can darn sure mess with price on individual orders.
Maybe I'll stick to futures after all.
The stuff you're talking about takes me back a few years ago to when I traded equities, before I switched to futures. Sounds like things have only gotten worse. I'm sure there's plenty of games played in the Eminis as well, but it souns alot better than what you're up against there.
The funny thing is, whenever I talk to someone about price manipulation, they immediately get defensive, and say that noone can control the market like that. Maybe not the whole market, but they can darn sure mess with price on individual orders.
Maybe I'll stick to futures after all.
Just my opinion, but real iquidity (i.e. real buyers, sellers) is just vaporizing from the floor. It is a fact that the % of computer driven volume is over 40% of the volume consistently on the NYSE. Combine that with the volume traded off the floor and on ECN's, and the specialists are really not left with a whole lot to make deeper markets with. Also - and haven't seen many people bringing this up either, but the $2 broker is almost extint as well. When a specialist and a crowd had the big buyers and sellers standing in front of them with orders in hand, it was much easier to give the little orders off DOT better fills on Market orders and stops. Without that crowd, and orders coming from a computer, how do you know what is coming?
I get just as frustrated as you do with .30 slippage and cancelled orders getting mysteriously filled (CFC guy went from being very fair yesterday, to an absulut ass today). I almost feel like these guys have taken an attitude like "well - they keep moving the listed volume to upstairs desks and the ECN's. Plus half of the orders I see are coming from computers, so I am just not going to do anyone any favors. . . ".
I get just as frustrated as you do with .30 slippage and cancelled orders getting mysteriously filled (CFC guy went from being very fair yesterday, to an absulut ass today). I almost feel like these guys have taken an attitude like "well - they keep moving the listed volume to upstairs desks and the ECN's. Plus half of the orders I see are coming from computers, so I am just not going to do anyone any favors. . . ".
Excuse me?
Actually I've been trading with much better entries, better exits and executing MUCH better trades than I did during my best month. My losses are also cut shorter and I am trading on more than one strategy/style. It's just when you get abused it HURTS. Not just 5-10 cents, I'm talking 20-30 cents. And you get abused quite often, which is fine, but not at the rate it's happened since Thurs.
You know like when you are short PBY on Friday with a 1000 shares and up 40+ cents on it and then at the figure after some support you say "time to take the profit" and NX a sizeable offer thinking "good trade". Except that the NX does not go off and all of the sudden it's a limit order that gets held as more limit orders pile on top of it. So you go market and start throwing up limit order 5,10, then 15 cents up, crossing offers yet nothing happens and your market is held and held and held. 30+ cents up on absolutely minimal volume and held orders is when you finally get to cover thinking "that sux but at least I was not that guy with 5k shares"
More examples? I doubt u want any as I really do not want to recall.
If I could execute order flow and manipulate it I certainly would and battle the specialists but unfortunately that not real life. So please suggest to me how I can adjust? Right now the main factor deciding how much I make in a day is how much will the specialist screw cost not whether I will catch good trades.
I'm going to Naz. Spoke to a great trader that is going to show the ropes and give a little guidance. I would rather battle computer progs than worry about non stop order execution abuse. It's harder to battle a manipulator that takes no risk rather than one that does.
......."so I am just not going to do anyone any favors. . . ".
I hear ya, but forget favors.......how about just doing their f*ckin' job!
Here's the latest horseh*it:
I've watched specs. leave a marketable limit order on the book, with no other incoming orders for as much as 7-9 minutes. Insane to believe, but we watched it in our office on several occasions last week with the same spec. Unreal.
Worse yet, they leave it locked like that on openbook, and some f*ckin' a$$hole lights up the whole show with 1000sh. NX ea. ONLY 1 SECOND APART....wiping out the bid or ask that was first posted, leaving the marketable limit with NO SHARES EXECUTED.
Why? Cause the spec is tooooooo slooooow. That kinda NXing illegal???!--Yup. I'm guessing its a prop firm computer program that NXs... then allocates all those NX's to sub accounts.....and thus not subject to the current 30sec/1k share rule. Getting worse by the second down there.
I hear ya, but forget favors.......how about just doing their f*ckin' job!
Here's the latest horseh*it:
I've watched specs. leave a marketable limit order on the book, with no other incoming orders for as much as 7-9 minutes. Insane to believe, but we watched it in our office on several occasions last week with the same spec. Unreal.
Worse yet, they leave it locked like that on openbook, and some f*ckin' a$$hole lights up the whole show with 1000sh. NX ea. ONLY 1 SECOND APART....wiping out the bid or ask that was first posted, leaving the marketable limit with NO SHARES EXECUTED.
Why? Cause the spec is tooooooo slooooow. That kinda NXing illegal???!--Yup. I'm guessing its a prop firm computer program that NXs... then allocates all those NX's to sub accounts.....and thus not subject to the current 30sec/1k share rule. Getting worse by the second down there.
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