It's All GREEK To Me....

Quote from sybilgotgame:

By early 1941 only one major nation still stood free, shoulder to shoulder with the British Empire and actively fighting against the Nazis. That country was not America, which was still sitting on the fence, nor the USSR, which was still on the wrong side, but Greece – a country parts of which, remember, had only won their independence from the Turks in the 1920s.

When Mussolini invaded in 1940 his large, organised and hi-tech Italian army was soundly thrashed by the Greeks, whose soldiers may have been poorly equipped (they actually had no tanks at all and only a few ancient aircraft) but fought like dragons.

This was the first Allied victory in the War, and was hugely damaging to Axis morale – so much so that some historians argue that the Greeks gave Hitler pause for thought in his plans to invade the USSR. Nobody derided Greece as a nation of feckless layabouts then; as Churchill said, 'Hence we will not say that Greeks fight like heroes, but that heroes fight like Greeks.'

Greece was, in the end, invaded by the Wehrmacht. And this is where things get really nasty. The behaviour of occupied nations and their peoples during WW2 remains hugely controversial. Who collaborated and to what degree, who protected ‘their’ Jews, whose resistance was most effective – these are questions that are open sores in the European psyche to this day and will keep historians busy for centuries.

What is not controversial is that Greece put up fiercer resistance to Nazi occupation than just about anywhere else, and paid a terrible price.

Throughout the War, groups of Andartes (resistance fighters) ambushed German supply lines, killed and captured senior Nazi and Italian commanders and generally made life hell for the occupiers.

When they could, the Germans exacted a terrible revenge – go to the village of Kandanos in western Crete and you can see the plaque in memory of the massacre that took place after one well-executed resistance operation.

Greek resistance, notably matched by that put up by anti-fascist partisans from Bulgaria and Yugoslavia to the north, was fierce, unrelenting and well-organised across all classes of society from the clergy to the aristocracy to the humblest peasants.

Greek collaboration certainly existed, but to a far lesser extent than was seen in just about any other occupied European country.

Some 300,000 civilians died in Athens alone during the years 1942-43; in the occupation, between 5 per cent and 10 per cent of the entire Greek civilian population perished, with the bulk of the casualties among the young, economically active classes. More than 80 per cent of Greek Jews were murdered by the Nazis and again these people formed a substantial part of the Greek professional, intellectual and entrepreneurial class.

By 1944, Greek industry was in ruins, the nation’s wealth looted, its fields untilled and its livestock starving; a million people homeless and the economy plundered. Along with Poland and parts of the occupied Soviet Union, Greece can lay claim to have suffered more than any other nation during the conflict.

Then, after Liberation, came a ghastly civil war, which killed another 50,000 and made a million more homeless. Then a brief period of democracy followed by a US-backed military coup and finally, in the 1970s, a democracy again.

That’s a lot of history in a short time. Many individual people will have lived through it all; indeed, a handful may be still alive today. Five hundred years of Turkish rule, followed by a century of war, occupation, atrocities, superpower meddling, self-inflicted misery and coups.

So it is not surprising that the Greek economy today is not in the best of shape.

Last year, two German MPs suggested ‘helpfully’ that Greece might consider selling a couple of its islands to help pay off its debt. I can only imagine how this advice was received by the ancient widows of Crete who, to this day, can remember all too well what happened the last time northern Europeans thought it might be a good idea to grab the Greek archipelago.

You may not buy the line that Greece is the birthplace of Western Civilisation or democracy. You may go there on holiday or business and be struck by the contract between the supposed ordered meritocracy of Classical Athens and the shambolic, corrupt chaos of today’s Hellenes.

World War Two was a long time ago and no one can hark back to past glories or injustices forever. Greece has been borrowing money at German interest rates and not matching it with German productivity and you can hardly blame today’s Germany, or anywhere else for that matter, for today’s Greek woes.

All fair enough. But do not forget that this tiny, relatively poor, rural nation of argumentative monks, shepherds, fishermen and a few intellectuals kept fascism at bay along Europe’s southern flank for a few precious months and, if this really did stop Hitler invading Russia until it was too late for him to win, we may have the Greeks as much as anyone to thank for the fact that we are not speaking German. We owe them more than they us, and let us not forget that.

Methinks you're on the wrong website!
 
Quote from rosy2:

yes. for personal investing/saving I use options instead of stocks. seems safer.


I agree. Built in risk control. You can only lose the cost of the option/spread contract. Way less than the cost of 100 shares of the underlying stock.
 
Quote from ForexForex:

ET is full of those boneheads, they are now into "Dynamically Hedging". This is the latest thread with some of that crap: Short strangles on stocks


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3754 people like this.


The term "pseudo-science" comes to mind...
 
Quote from spindr0:

Once upon a time everyone thought that the world was flat and that you'd fall off the edge if you went too far. And some ignorantly believed that the sun revolved around the earth. I bet Galileo and Columbus spouted a lot of gobiligoop jargon about this and that as well...

There are many ways to scalp a buck. If you have minimal understanding of the Greeks or haven't found a way to utilize them, that in no way invalidates their usefulness to those who have done so. In your opinion, they're useless and for you, that's acceptible.

I have nothing against them and realize plenty of great traders use The Greeks. I know what Delta is, and heard Theta has something to do with Time... that's it. A limited understanding to be sure!
I just don't think they're necessary to make money trading Options, which seems to be the implication when reading all the other Threads. I don't want to make my trading decisions based on mathematical formulas. Much prefer thinking about Companies, Stocks and their Charts. More fun for me. Just a personal preference of course.
Very glad to find out I'm not alone however. Was getting worried there for a while!
 
Cactiman:

Thank you for writing what needed writing despite being off topic. The war you wrote about was three generations ago so its not surprising its facts are lost to most contemporary people. Many find it easy to pick on Greece today. How any of them are students of history?

As far as the OP is concerned, my trading system does not require me to use the Greeks, just to use their results.
 
Quote from cactiman:

I just don't think they're necessary to make money trading Options, which seems to be the implication when reading all the other Threads. I don't want to make my trading decisions based on mathematical formulas. Much prefer thinking about Companies, Stocks and their Charts. More fun for me. Just a personal preference of course. Very glad to find out I'm not alone however. Was getting worried there for a while!
I've made money a number of ways. A variety of vanilla option strategies, gamma scalping, volatility trading around earnings and during the GFC of '08 to '09, a handy sum using some simple Excel mathematical formulas for equity trading.

Are any of these essential to making money in the market? Hardly. There are a multitude of ways to do so. What I wouldn't do is declaratively state that other ways are useless, particularly if I don't use them or more likely, don't understand them.

Though I prefer making money the old fashioned way (theft), does it really matter how different people make their money? :)
 
Quote from stoic:

IMO "The Greeks" are by and large useless. And despite my invitations to the advocates of the Greeks here, no one has shown any real world real time evidence to the contrary.

You're not all alone. there's lots of us old timers out there, plodding alone making realistic returns.

Most of the posts here are from the wanna-bees who get some kind of kick out of posting a lot of gobiligoop jargon about IV this, skew that.....and gamma scalp this. They think it makes them sound like experts.

+1
 
Quote from stoic:

IMO "The Greeks" are by and large useless. And despite my invitations to the advocates of the Greeks here, no one has shown any real world real time evidence to the contrary.

You're not all alone. there's lots of us old timers out there, plodding alone making realistic returns.

Most of the posts here are from the wanna-bees who get some kind of kick out of posting a lot of gobiligoop jargon about IV this, skew that.....and gamma scalp this. They think it makes them sound like experts.

Stoic

you just feel free to continue to ignore the value and utility of the Greeks. those of us who have labored to learn them and appreciate the "edge" they bring to our trading know fully well the difference they make in our trading. you certainly don't have to study them and you certainly don't have to like the topic. I would suggest that you refrain from commenting more about them unless or until you can c-r-e-d-i-b-l-y and i-n-t-e-l-l-i-g-e-n-t-l-y speak about them
 
Quote from Pelagos:

Cactiman:

Thank you for writing what needed writing despite being off topic. The war you wrote about was three generations ago so its not surprising its facts are lost to most contemporary people. Many find it easy to pick on Greece today. How any of them are students of history?

As far as the OP is concerned, my trading system does not require me to use the Greeks, just to use their results.

Pelagos:

You may have misunderstood. I didn't write the long article about the History of Greece - a member called Sybilgotgame did. I wrote the comment below it, because I too thought it was off topic. I guess he agreed, because his History lesson has been removed from this Thread.
As to Greece - I went there once on vacation in 1988 and really liked it. I wish them nothing but the best in resolving their current troubles. And of course we have enough of our own to sort out!

cactiman
 
Cactiman,

If you are going to do options it is good to have a nodding acquaint with The Greeks - especially Delta and Theta. You certainly shouldn't obsess with them or think all the math used to explain them makes any difference.

Basically what The Greeks tell you is how an option price at a particular strike will change -

Delta - This tells you how the option price should change as the price of the underlying asset changes. Example Delta - .8 - If the stock changes by $1 the price of the option should change by .80. Stock goes from $1 to $2. If call option is $1 it should go up to $1.80

A way to get a handle on delta is to look at an option chart. Say strikes are in $5 increments - calls 190 - $5.00 200 - $8.00 - $5 difference in strikes - $3 difference in option price. $3/$5 = .60 per dollar move in stock.

Theta - This tells you how the option price should change as more days go by. All options have an expiration date. Theta is really only important close to expiration. But you do have to understand that close to expiration that the option price will fall even if the price of the stock does not. Or the stock can change but the option doesn't change as much as you might think just given Delta because it has lost some of its time value.

Know easy to just figure this out. You have to look it up.

The other 2 are a bit more obscure -
I would just forget Rho.

Most of the time Vega is not that important. Vega is a measure of uncertainty. What you do want to be aware of though is that if a big event is expected Vega will probably go up and this can be reflected in a higher option price. After the event Vega will fall and this can be reflected in a lower option price.

Vega comes into play big time around earnings announcements. Vega will go up. Options go up. After announcement Vega down and options go down. So you can get earnings as expected but not get as large a pop in the options price because the Vega has fallen.

Just so you know - there is a different set of Greeks for calls vs puts and each strike price.

All the complicated stuff is for people doing big time trading.
 
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