Iterative Refinement

Quote from ljyoung:

Another tack is to do what Mr. Black does and simply start trading tapes while waiting for the 'apparent mess' to sort itself out to my satisfaction.

Does anyone else suffer from a similar affliction and have another way to deal with it?

TIA

lj [/B]
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Same situation here.
 
Quote from sscott:

Same situation here.
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Thanks sscott for your validation of a common confusion. IMO, there are brains to burn on this thread and we should be able to come to some sort of resolution of this problem.

As of now (12:10 PM) I know WTF I am and that is in the throes of trying to complete the last up traverse from yesterday. So my PFC was correct but dammit it took me almost 2 hours to feel comfortable with this conclusion.

Mr. Black is not the only one who tape trades. There are many others like WGTrader, ehorn, and ticktrade to name just a few of the more obvious ones. I also believe that all these traders do not yet have the 'Spyderian' solution to the 5 min ES and this is also true for me.

I find myself using the YM 2 min and ES 15 min as necessary components of my current problem-solving method. So is this a bad thing? I don't think so and if it isn't then the question naturally arises as to whether or not given the prior content dictates of this thread, things other than just the 5 min ES should be discussed here.

In fact they already are but always in the context of reaching a higher plane of understanding of the 5 min ES.

Importantly Spyder posted a chart on 2-3-09 which I'm going to assume represents the present level of his understanding which he is willing to share with the rest of the thread and more importantly which he feels would be of utility to the rest of the thread. There are a number of important features in the chart which he posted and I am in the process of constructing a post which asks some questions about what I think I have seen. As an appetizer I note that he has bagged the "P" signposts from his volume chart - not a surprising act given what he said near the end of last year.

FWIW, I still use the "P's" and furthermore have extended things to try and account for the appearance of "P's" in a nondom scenario, something which he did not discuss.

So I guess what I'm getting at is whether or not folks believe we should continue the "higher plane of ES understanding" goal or whether it is useful to expand the discussion to include other areas. I do not wish to pollute the thread with heresy and so if people wish to maintain this thread as the vehicle for properly understanding the ES 5 min trader (the traverse level trader), then I will shift my thoughts which are outside this constraint to another thread.

FWIW, it's 12:40 now and IMO we still aren't done with the up traverse.

lj
 
Quote from ljyoung:

So I guess what I'm getting at is whether or not folks believe we should continue the "higher plane of ES understanding" goal or whether it is useful to expand the discussion to include other areas.
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Everyone should feel free to discuss anything they feel brings them closer to their ultimate goal. If using 15 minute charts in conjunction with Str-Squ and a Tic Chart helps you to consistantly profit each day, then so be it. As I indicated previously, the thread (and more importantly, its direction) rests in all of your hands. Close it. Maintain the course. Change direction entirely. Participate or not. These decisions fall to you all now.

However, I encourage you all (whichever direction you choose to take) to make a mental note as to where you left the map. I suspect you might find that information useful one day. :)

Good Trading to you all.

- Spydertrader
 
Quote from Spydertrader:

Everyone should feel free to discuss anything they feel brings them closer to their ultimate goal. If using 15 minute charts in conjunction with Str-Squ and a Tic Chart helps you to consistantly profit each day, then so be it. As I indicated previously, the thread (and more importantly, its direction) rests in all of your hands. Close it. Maintain the course. Change direction entirely. Participate or not. These decisions fall to you all now.

However, I encourage you all (whichever direction you choose to take) to make a mental note as to where you left the map. I suspect you might find that information useful one day. :)

Good Trading to you all.

- Spydertrader
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Thank you Spyder. Your advice is duly noted. My search for the final tweak or two will continue but time forces me to venture down that darkened back alley in Juarez just across the border from El Paso, TX.

As I said in my PM to you I won't be going to the Expo this year but all things going well, look forward to seeing you next year.

There was a time a while back that I was able to time the opening of my pie-hole to market turns.

lj
 
Quote from Mr_Black:

Could resist the temptation...last trade for today....Did you traders pay attention to 30min chart.....:D
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I must admit Mr. Black that I tend to use the 15 min ES more than the 30 min ES but I do see your point. Although all things start on the DOM when they move to those longer time frames, the rewards can be rather juicy.

lj
 
The 12:45 upward explosion put an end to my feelings of contentment with respect to interpreting the 5 min ES traverse sequences beginning from yesterday afternoon. Clearly I did not account for the gap down in a correct manner. If I look on it as part of a down traverse, then the up traverse preceding it must have occurred yesterday PM. Then to day would have been a down-up-down sequence followed by the blowout up traverse which began at 15:10. I will reexamine some prior interpretations of the data.

lj

NB: A pure tape trader would have fared just fine today, IMO.
 
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