Iterative Refinement

[Spydertrader]

Quote from frenchfry:

OK Spyder, you told me to head east and look for a red barn but after that I told you that I don't even know what a "barn" is.

Cows and Horses live in barns, and in terms of the anology, the '10 miles' represents a completed sequence, the barn represents the 'signal for change' needed to make the left turn (take action).

Quote from frenchfry:

So I continue to drive and look for this "barn" which should come somewhere in about 10 miles. But I don't find it (or identify it) and continue to drive around in the hope to find the way to your place anyway.

Perfect. Once again, the market (my analogy) has shown you where you need to apply focus in order to understand that which currently eludes your grasp.

1. If a trader still cannot define a barn (signal for change), then one need learn what constitutes a change signal.

2. If a trader cannot know when they have driven ten miles (reached a completed sequence), then again, one needs to learn what defines such an event.

3. If a trader knows how far to drive, and knows where the barn sits, but remains unsure of how to make a left hand turn (Take action), then once again, the trader needs to learn when to take timely, and appropriate action.

Quote from frenchfry:

While driving around I suddenly meet PointOne and he shows me his map and I notice that it very, very much looks like the map I used originally. There I can see the way to your place but also on his map I can't find this "barn" thing.

You've indicated that you don't know what a barn (signal for change) is, yet right on the chart (map) posted by Point One, he did have a barn (signal for change). As such, you either can't see it, or see it but do not understand it. Either way, the market (the analogy) has shown you where you need to apply focus.

Quote from frenchfry:

I don't know why you feel attacked (or at least my english doesn't allow me to recognize your reaction and intention). I'm only trying to understand how I can see the same thing you and some others see.

I don't feel attacked (note the use of the 'smiley' face in my post). My efforts were designed to prevent you from allowing your frustrations to create an environment where you transitioned to making incorrect decisions.

Quote from frenchfry:

My current knowledge level tells me that I need two tapes in opposite directions in order to have a traverse.

Then I encourage you to improve your knowledge level.

Quote from frenchfry:

Just understanding this specific area would help me immensely and I could move on to other areas where I have difficulties with.

The reason you need to spend more time focused on this area is because you have not correctly and completely built a foundation with respect to the fundamentals. You 'see' things a certain way. However, that way represents an incorrect or incomplete data set. As such, you must go through the process of differenciating that which you believe you see, from that which actually exists.

HTH.

- Spydertrader

 

[PointOne]

Quote from ehorn:

I was merely trying to identify an area in which the market has indicated something similar to what Spyder has illuminated here and also what dkm has extrapolated here.

Yes I know. I was merely asking for an annotated chart of the area you identified.

 

[astral]

My current knowledge level tells me that I need two tapes in opposite directions in order to have a traverse....

3. Is there maybe a rule which I don't know yet which says that if you can identify two down traverses then in between there must have been an up traverse even if it doesn't look like one (=constructed with two tapes)?

...Just understanding this specific area would help me immensely and I could move on to other areas where I have difficulties with.

Thanks. [/B]

The chart attached is how I would debrief on a coarse level.

The red traverses are crystal clear, however, that thing in the middle appears to create a rumble scrumble.
It look as if there's nothing to do with it but to seal it off! Or we could head off to the YM and start building a traverse which is more appealing to the eye. The thick red line is there for a visual aspect.
Notice how the second red traverse was completed.
2 significant things: see how the market broke out 1 bar**, it also ended its high in the upper lateral zone.
At that point you either get lost, anticipate either direction or know the direction. I'm currently at anticipating heading to knowing. Thank god

So my anticipated up traverse never came. I didn't fan my red traverse line just so I could see where I'm at.
It shows my where the market said " RESET! Let's do another one!"

** Days where we have these huge, long, constantly-needing-to-fan-type of traverse, the fanning will occur with a 1 max 2(IBGS) bars

 

[ehorn]

Quote from PointOne:

Yes I know. I was merely asking for an annotated chart of the area you identified.

Yes I know.

 

[orion]

Quote from Spydertrader:

Not bad at all. You may want to add the channel line from your Pink FTT to your Red FTT.

HTH.

- Spydertrader

Thanks for advice

 

[guavaman]

This is my revision , of a revision, of a revision, of yet another revision of 11-20 PM as tortured as it may be.

When traverses and/or channels go on for a while I tend to lose confidence that my annotations are correct so I basically lose count of the tapes and traverses. This period was one of those times.

Have mercy on the guava

 

[ljyoung]

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2189583#post2189583
No mercy or soup for you.

lj

 

[romanus]

Spydertrader, would you be so kind to clarify two of your comments, which I have trouble understanding.

The first one is (marked with red):

Quote from Spydertrader:

Debrief Drill

Each new day begins where the market ended with respect to WMCN on the previous market day. In order to discern whether the market has plans to end one thing or whether the market intends to begin another, one must understand where one sits with respect to the right side of the market.

....

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2181422#post2181422

The 2nd one is (also marked with red):

Quote from Spydertrader:

...
Each day (during the period of time when the Markets 'sync') a trader needs to determine if the market is finishing what began the day before, or if the market is building something new for the current day. Begin with the Final Bar of the previous day, and walk through the sequences of Price and Volume as the market moves from Point One to Point Two to Point Three....

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2050110#post2050110

Both of these statements are communicating the same idea, it seems to me, - but I am hitting the mental block here and just can't understand what is it that you are conveying.

Thank you.

 

[guavaman]

Quote from romanus:

but I am hitting the mental block here and just can't understand what is it that you are conveying.

One has to know where the previous day ended in regards to the sequence.

 

[1.6180340]

Quote from romanus:

IMO the red P2 is not Point 2 because the red P3 is not Point 3. And the red P3 is not Point 3 because by time the 15:50 bar closed we see a PA. And WMCN after this PA is known - non-dom movement followed by more IRV. Which is precisely what usually happens after Point 2. Therefore 1550 can not be anything other than Point 2. I could be wrong, but most likely I am not in this particular case.

Romanus,

What is the definition of "Pace Acceleration" and why is that present at 15:50?

Thanks!