Iterative Refinement

Quote from Spydertrader:

Such assertions make little sense in light of how the Price Volume Relationship works quite effectively on a 30 minute and / or Daily fractal when applied to the equities markets.

Clearly, nothing magical or mystical exists on a five minute time frame. 'Traverse Level' simply indicates trading with one tool set with the intention of not jumping to a faster fractal (specifically because one isn't using the tools required to trade that faster fractal) throughout the day.

In other words, one learns on one fractal, then applies what one has learned onto all others. This is what I did moving from equities to futures. One can change markets or change timeframes, but the principles apply universally throughout.

Any market, Any time frame - provided sufficient liquidity exists.

- Spydertrader
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I fully agree with you Spyder that if one understands WTF is going on then indeed, Any market, Any time frame - provided sufficient liquidity exists. The point I was making is that because the ES 5 min trader does not use any of the finer tools then when we have volatility like we have had the past couple of weeks, 20-30 point rides on a couple of bars or 50-100 point point rides on a traverse hold, can definitely activate the old cremasteric reflex (for male traders only, I might add).

I understand as well that part of the method that is used to teach the trader how to effectively use the JH/STM to make money, eliminates the activation. I do appreciate that by my posting this I am saying that I'm not yet ready to trade markets such as these. That's my problem and I will shortly remedy that deficiency and get in.

lj
 
Quote from frenchfry:

This is interesting to read. Are you saying that this is not yet defined? I'm still reading the original futures journal and thought to myself that I will wait before I ask that question. Maybe it is answered somewhere in the Iterative refinement thread so I better wait until I reach that point in the journal. But if this basic concept is still not defined after two threads and so many posts then I'm a little bit worried.
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What I'm saying is that for me, the level of clarity that I require is not yet fulfilled. This state is something of my own creation that I live with and would not for a femtosecond inflict on anyone else. We all find our level of comfort with the material present in the multiple threads and tens of thousands of posts having to do with the Hershey method. You need to find your own. Don't give up as it is entirely worth the effort to understand this method. I can think of no better way than using "pool extraction" to redistribute the wealth.

lj
 
The problem with change signals is more knowing when to apply them. The difference in laterals (movement vs retrace vs traverse) has been the toughest hurdle, at least for me - because if you have that wrong you also have your sequences wrong. Here's a series of charts. The first one has a lateral that is not a traverse or a retrace.
 

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Quote from Spydertrader:

Thanks for pointing out those annotations. D and N do not refer to Dominant and Non-dominant on the previously posted chart - even though some letters appear to correspond. You'll note a few 'D' bars inside a Lateral, when clearly, a Bar would not be dominant. :) To avoid confusion, I have reposted with a more clean chart.

Again, thanks for bringing the annotations to my attention. I'd hate to add to anyone's confusion.

- Spydertrader
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Spyder,

I was so busy typing out my confused responses to your comments that I got confused and didn't download the chart which you thought might be confusing. What's confusing today may be less confusing tomorrow, so if you're in the mood to facilitate my becoming less confused could you possibly repost the possibly confusing chart which was removed.

Confusingly yours,

lj
 
Quote from Ezzy:

The problem with change signals is more knowing when to apply them. The difference in laterals has been the toughest hurdle, at least for me - because if you have that wrong you also have your sequences wrong. Here's a series of charts. The first one has a lateral that is not a traverse or a retrace.
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I agree with you you ezzy both with respect to the application of the signals and to the critical role that laterals have.

lj
 
The is the chart for 10-22-08 with more apparent traverses that aren't in the morning. The afternoon confusion is around the laterals and determining the sequences in those areas. How you read that determines "what" sequence completion you're looking for - if the lateral BO (2nd circled) lateral completed a sequence or if you need another 1,2,3 down.
 

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Quote from Spydertrader:

Thanks for pointing out those annotations. D and N do not refer to Dominant and Non-dominant on the previously posted chart...
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I must admit that I did not study your earlier chart, but was planning to this evening. It would be helpful however, to see your chart with the D and N bars annotated as this is an area I need to work on. BTW, thanks for all your recent charts. They are very helpful.
 
Quote from Ezzy:

The is the chart for 10-22-08 with more apparent traverses that aren't in the morning. The afternoon confusion is around the laterals and determining the sequences in those areas. How you read that determines "what" sequence completion you're looking for - if the lateral BO (2nd circled) lateral completed a sequence or if you need another 1,2,3 down.
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I guess ... you wanted to point to the olive up move as the morning Leg#1 you annotated, not the blue traverse ... :) In the afternoon the two laterals are the two dominant movements of the non-dominant traverse of the down purple channel ... :)
 
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