Iterative Refinement
- Thread starter Spydertrader
- Start date
Romanus,
I believe what Spydertrader was referring to in his 8/22 post, was a different context than both the 15:20 bar on 9/10 and todays 12:05 bar.
In the 8/22 example, spydertrader's comment was made regarding the 10:40 bar that was a Jokari window signal for change. His point was that when that signal for change occured, there was no Lateral in place. This same bar was the second bar in a Lateral, which hadn't been fully formed yet. Hence spydertraders comment that the lateral annotation "does not make its way onto the chart until later".
The 9/10 bar @15:20 was not contained in a lateral and was not a Jokari window signal for change.
Today's bar at 12:05, closed outside of the 12:00 high, so it was not officially a lateral. It was also not a jokari window signal for change.
That is my take.
Phineas,
I am trying to figure out these areas of uncertainty, as they make me extremely unhappy and that was the closest context to what we're dealing with here IMO.
It was a Jokari window signal for change on his chart created by his data provider, but not on dkm's or mine. ( see dkm's post to which Spydertrader was responding) Since change took place at that point in time and change occurs irrespective of how data providers create bars something else (other than Jokari window) in that case created change on dkm's and mine charts.
I think the issue there was much deeper and had to do with the fact that two components of FTT: (1) failure to reach, and (2) signal for change, may not occasionally occur by the end of the same bar.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2038719
That same bar would have been the third bar in a lateral on dkm's chart. Since there was no Jokari Window change on the pic above, and the change took place at that point in time - the only logical explanation for that change on dkm's chart is Lateral FBO. It occurred in such fashion that the "Failure to BO" part took place earlier than lateral was completed. And that, I think, was the reason for the comment that the lateral annotation "does not make its way onto the chart until later".
Both bars represent pt1 in a Traverse. Obviously some type of change took place there. All my attempts to explain to myself these types of 'areas of uncertainty' result from asking myself a question:
"Can I 'see' anything different about what the market has shown me?"
If one allows the possibility that on occasion both components of FTT: (1) failure to reach, and (2) signal for change, may be separated by a certain amount of time in between - the Lateral FBO explains both bars. The way price moves through those bars are not different from how the price moves when it exits a Lateral and then closes back inside.
Personally, I don't much care what signal may exists there - I just want to figure out how to annotate them correctly, eliminate them from 'areas of uncertainty' and move on.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2063518
I 'see' decreased volatility on increased volume. (1.75 green FTT bar vs 2.25 prev bar)
Romanus,
You aren't kidding about differences with data providers, both those bars have a 2.25 pt range on my chart (Esignal data)
But regardless, isn't decreased volatility on increased volume, a tape level signal for change, not a traverse level signal for change?
Phineas,
However, I never claimed to understand fully the "Sesame Street" post, if that's what you're referring to with respect to tape vs traverse level change.