Iterative Refinement

gucci · Sep 10, 2008

Quote from Tums:

see the number "3" on the right?

Can be interesting.

dkm · Sep 10, 2008

Quote from Spydertrader:

Ask yourself, "How does increasing black Volume form in what you believe to be a Point Three Up Traverse?"
Check each bar and 'see' what causes the Increasing Black.
Breakouts of formations do not a trend make.
- Spydertrader

For the benefit of others that have p.m'd me with the same question regarding the chart for 20080908:

On close inspection, there isn't a single bar with increasing black between 14:05 and 14:50 that ISN'T a bo of a pennant. So, for this reason, I conclude that this is why spyder does not consider 14:25 as a p3 and 14:05 to 14:50 cannot be considered a traverse.

David

edit: I have found numerous examples in spyder's charts where a penn bo DOES form a p3 (e.g. 9:55 on the 8th) so this conclusion cannot be correct.

treeline · Sep 10, 2008

Quote from dkm:

edit: I have found numerous examples in spyder's charts where a penn bo DOES form a p3 (e.g. 9:55 on the 8th) so this conclusion cannot be correct.

David,

Keep in mind that Spydertrader has not annotated all of his posted charts at the ES-only fractal.

dkm · Sep 10, 2008

Quote from treeline:

David,

Keep in mind that Spydertrader has not annotated all of his posted charts at the ES-only fractal.

Well, for the sake of consistency, I'm kind of hoping that the chart for Monday 8th Sept (only 2 days ago) was annotated at the ES traverse level. If this is not the case, then I think it would be a considerable help if we focussed annotations purely at the traverse level for a while until everyone is clear on what constitutes a traverse, what doesn't, and what consistutes a traverse level change signal.

gucci · Sep 10, 2008

Quote from dkm:

Well, for the sake of consistency, I'm kind of hoping that the chart for Monday 8th Sept (only 2 days ago) was annotated at the ES traverse level. If this is not the case, then I think it would be a considerable help if we focussed annotations purely at the traverse level for a while until everyone is clear on what constitutes a traverse, what doesn't, and what consistutes a traverse level change signal.

I still do not really understand the difference between traverses and tapes. Needless to say, without clearcut differentiation I can not know whether the sequence is complete or not.

nkhoi · Sep 10, 2008

Quote from gucci:

I still do not really understand the difference between traverses and tapes.

tapes made traverse.

R/R · Sep 10, 2008

Quote from gucci:

I still do not really understand the difference between traverses and tapes. Needless to say, without clearcut differentiation I can not know whether the sequence is complete or not.

go back and study Spyder's 6/18 posts where he posted a series of four charts. He called it "Three Levels of Trends". It is a very clear presentation that should help you with this.

gucci · Sep 10, 2008

Thanks for the direction.

romanus · Sep 10, 2008

Quote from dkm:

For the benefit of others that have p.m'd me with the same question regarding the chart for 20080908:

On close inspection, there isn't a single bar with increasing black between 14:05 and 14:50 that ISN'T a bo of a pennant. So, for this reason, I conclude that this is why spyder does not consider 14:25 as a p3 and 14:05 to 14:50 cannot be considered a traverse.

David

edit: I have found numerous examples in spyder's charts where a penn bo DOES form a p3 (e.g. 9:55 on the 8th) so this conclusion cannot be correct.

Bar 5 (9:55 [close of] on 09-08) is pt3 not because it's BO of the pennant, but because next bar has increasing red that does not come from pennant BO:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2059094

The examples you found, could you post the dates and times - I am pretty confident some increasing volume can be found in those examples that does not result from Lateral (either Movement or Formation) BO / FBO or from a Pennant / Adjacent bar Even Harmonic BO / FBO

romanus · Sep 10, 2008

Quote from gucci:

Romanus,

I understand the onion (fractal) structure (nature) of the markets. Nevertheless, thanks for your efforts. I got confused comparing two following charts and trying to differentiate between tapes and traverses as they are forming real time.

This one:
<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1998307>

And this one:

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1984743>

To grasp the difference would be an AHA for me. Compare the first traverses and the behaviour of the market afterwards.

Sorry for taking so long to respond, but I did not have the answer back then.

Bars 7 to 10 in a second pic do not form a traverse because the increasing volume, which is needed to confirm pt3, comes from pennant BO.