Iterative Refinement

[gravitonium77]

Quote from guavaman:

Not only was this bar not a signal for change, it was a signal for continuation (down) since it provided a Pt3 of the developing down traverse.

Thank your both Guava and Spyder. There is so much that has transpired in the past few score of pages that it's time to stop and really study what's contained therein. At this point, the answer to the quiz just caused another frustrating question. I'll do myself and the forum the favor of not posting that question until which time it has been thought about, stewed, cooked, regurgitated and articulated in the simplest fashion possible.... if I haven't already answered my own question.

My hunch is (based on how all of a sudden I seem to get lost with what fractal I'm on and can't figure out how to get back) that the vast majority of those having difficulties are having a problem REALLY seeing the fractal nature of the market. Thanks again one and all.

 

[romanus]

Quote from gravitonium77:

At this point, the answer to the quiz just caused another frustrating question.

Try looking at bar six this way: it closed up (close higher than open). The Jokari Window cell that addresses this type of situation reads: If Price is Up and Volume is Down, then the Price will go Down.
So basically we are in a down trend with price going lower and Jokari Window signals down, therefore it's a continuation for a down trend. So it can't be a change.

 

[ljyoung]

Good AM Spyder from beautiful NW WA state,
The chart below has been annotated in such a way as to show only 1,2,3’s and what I have referred to earlier as ‘traverse channels’. Others have called this type of channel a ‘mini-1,2,3’ channel. Bars 6, 12 and 16 are IBGS’s and should all be colored red with red volume as well. As with your chart we begin the day at bar 1. Some questions;
1.The bar 8 FTT is an FTT of the ‘traverse channel’. This channel is composed of two traverses, an up one and a down one, which in turn are composed of tapes. Yes?
2. Whatever you want to call the channel which is next highest in ‘channel heirarchy’ – let’s call it ‘a channel’, is not formed by the time the FTT occurred. Yes?
3. After the change highlighted by the FTT has occurred there is a new collection of tapes and traverses but in this case ‘a channel’ is formed and this takes place at bar 22. Yes?
4. Until bar 22 we just have a ‘traverse channel’. Yes?
5. Could one say then that unless there is a VE of the ‘traverse channel’s’ LTL then we don’t have ‘a channel’?
At the moment I’m not precisely sure how to accommodate a ‘spike bar’ into the above elaboration but that need not, IMO, negate the proposed conclusion.
Any comments will be appreciated.
TIA
lj

 

[romanus]

Quote from ljyoung:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2008599#post2008599

Quote from Spydertrader:

Pink and Blue do represent Traverses and the Red does represent a channel - the only channel on this snippet. However, the very skinny lines represent tapes - not traverses within the pink traverse.

Tapes build Traverses, and Traverses, in turn, build channels.

In other words, a traverse is a Point Three constucted from tapes and a channel is a Point Three constructed from traverses.

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2008600>

- Spydertader

 

[Tums]

Quote from ljyoung:
This channel is composed of two traverses, an up one and a down one, which in turn are composed of tapes. Yes?

Sigh...

 

[ljyoung]

Quote from romanus:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2008599#post2008599

Thank you Romanus for the snip and like you I have seen it before. My questions had to do with when the 'conversion' occurred and whether the VE was the signpost for said 'conversion'.

lj

 

[romanus]

Quote from ljyoung:

... signpost ...

lj

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2008576#post2008576

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1962001#post1962001

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1962194#post1962194

HTH

 

[ljyoung]

Quote from Tums:

Sigh...

Oh no. Not the 'sigh' guy, again.

It is always best, IMO, to declare the obvious before suggesting anyt'ing further. This also allows one to get a feeling for the level of comprehension of the topic being discussed by those who respond to the obvious. It also allows one to get some feeling for the level of comprehension that the poster is perceived to have by those who respond to the obvious.

In my case, of course, like Schultz in 'Hogan's Heros', "I know nothing."

lj

 

[ljyoung]

Quote from romanus:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2008576#post2008576

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1962001#post1962001

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1962194#post1962194

HTH

07-28-08 12:25 PM

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Quote from romanus:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...599#post2008599
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Thank you Romanus for the snip(s) and like you I have seen it(them) before. My questions had to do with when the 'conversion' occurred and whether the VE was the signpost for said 'conversion'.

lj

 

[Spydertrader]

Quote from ljyoung:

1.The bar 8 FTT is an FTT of the ‘traverse <strike>channel’</strike>. This <strike>channel</strike> traverse is composed of <strike>two</strike> ‘three <strike>traverses</strike> movements, an up one and a down one, ‘and another up one which in turn are composed of tapes. Yes?

Corrected.

Quote from ljyoung:

2. Whatever you want to call the channel which is next highest in ‘channel heirarchy’ – let’s call it ‘a channel’, is not formed by the time the FTT occurred. Yes?

We call it a channel because that is what the market says it is, and yes, a channel has yet to form at this point in time.

Quote from ljyoung:

3. After the change highlighted by the FTT has occurred there is a new collection of tapes <strike>and traverses</strike> and a Lateral but in this case <strike>‘a channel’</strike> another traverse is formed and this takes place at 11:10 AM [close of] ES bar. Yes?

Corrected.

Quote from ljyoung:

4. Not until 11:10 AM [close of] ES bar do we have a traverse <strike>channel’</strike>. Yes?

Corrected.

Quote from ljyoung:

5. Could one say then that unless there is a VE of the ‘traverse <strike>channel’s’</strike> LTL then we don’t have ‘a channel’?

Not if you want to accurately describe the events transpiring to form a channel.

Quote from ljyoung:

At the moment I’m not precisely sure how to accommodate a ‘spike bar’ into the above elaboration

The same way all other bars fit into the P-V Relationship - as continuation or change.

- Spydertrader