Iterative Refinement
- Thread starter Spydertrader
- Start date
Perhaps, I neglected to annotate two laterals on that section of chart you posted, and as a result, you do not 'see' the sequences. In addition, change may occur at any time. However, someone who trades on the traverse level might find it helpful to know when the market has completed a Traverse before they went looking for a change in market mode.
In an effort to assist with this, I plan on removing all 'extras' from my charts tomorrow (20 SMA and Pivot Points) - leaving in place only those elements which should aid the trader in seeing the sequences from Point One to Point Two to Point Three.
- Spydertrader
Partial quote from Jander:
It seems that we have decided that tape level change (decreasing Vy with increasing V) hints at an upcoming fan.
I think it does indicate a 'fan' but the 'fan' that is being referred to is a 'fan' of the tape not the traverse.
With respect to the JW effects, as long as price keeps making higher highs and higher lows, I hold regardless of the volume. Price often but not always fails to get to the LTL again. If it does get to the LTL either as a VE or an LTL touch it may turn south again.
When it forms an IBGS it often turns out to be a FTT, but not always.
However when price fails to make a higher high that's when I look at the JW effect as having finally shown itself and act appropriately. The traverse FTT that may arise does so because price fell and not because of the fact that someone was able to anticipate its formation.
With respect to this last statement, there may well be things which I don't appreciate about the 5 min ES as yet, which later may require that I change this view, but for the moment I'll stick with it.
lj
It seems that we have decided that tape level change (decreasing Vy with increasing V) hints at an upcoming fan.
I think it does indicate a 'fan' but the 'fan' that is being referred to is a 'fan' of the tape not the traverse.
With respect to the JW effects, as long as price keeps making higher highs and higher lows, I hold regardless of the volume. Price often but not always fails to get to the LTL again. If it does get to the LTL either as a VE or an LTL touch it may turn south again.
When it forms an IBGS it often turns out to be a FTT, but not always.
However when price fails to make a higher high that's when I look at the JW effect as having finally shown itself and act appropriately. The traverse FTT that may arise does so because price fell and not because of the fact that someone was able to anticipate its formation.
With respect to this last statement, there may well be things which I don't appreciate about the 5 min ES as yet, which later may require that I change this view, but for the moment I'll stick with it.
lj
Of course it is
quote:
The FTT (Failure to Traverse) marks the turning point of a trend, and more importantly, a change in trend direction.
Spyder's words
Let's not quibble, or try and reinvent the wheel here.
Questions are being posed and answers are being given that are not the least bit helpful. If you dont know the answer, or dont care to repeat what has been stated before, is it too much to ask to not post at all? There are literally tens of thousands of posts on here and it is quite likely that some were not fully grasped at one point or another.
If you have noticed, most posters have reverted to solely using the ES chart with no finer tools, and trading on a level much closer to coarse than fine. Obviously a great deal was lost in translation during the first couple of journals. It seems most never attained the first stepping stone, trading successfully at a coarse level with just price/volume.
I would be happy to start a new journal for non-expert level questions if that is needed. It is clear that new topics are being presented now that seemingly contradict earlier posts, hence the confusion.
Unfortunately, I fear that when Spydertrader decides his passing it forward is complete there will be little help provided from the rest that get it
. It appears questions are asked here that would require 1 or 2 sentence answers, and would really help get the ball rolling for quite a few posters. As it turns out, only Spyder really knows, and those who pretend to know say things like ' go back to page 1 'Sorry for venting -- This post was not directed at you bi9foot
They may lead to a traverse forming in the opposite direction. But they may also not. Just like an FTT may lead to BO, but also to FBO. And an FBO may require fanning. In other words all poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are poodles.Quote from Jander:
Jokari changes on the other hand are traverse level change, leading to a traverse forming in the opposite direction.
Thats fine and dandy... and I like your use of Spyder's comparison
However, if you look at the trades Spyder posts occasionally, they always enter/reverse on the FTT itself (never the pt 3). I challenge you to find one that subsequently FBOs. They may have happened, but they are rare.
This led me to believe that he knows whether or not it is a 'true' ftt. He confirmed (at least thats my impression of what he said) on p. 915 of this journal. And he always says " How do you know during this bar, not the next bar or 4 bars later, but ON THIS BAR, that you dont have change.?"
I dont recall ever seeing an answer to this type of question, and it is similar to the one he posed today that I am assuming noone got right as he said he would confirm it if they did...
I think what bi9foot is saying is correct in the sense that the FTT indicates that change has occurred but that is because of what happened after the bar called the "FTT" bar came into being. It's not really semantics and gets away from the idea that you can uniformly and correctly anticipate which bar is going to be an FTT and flaws show that to be so.
I think what Romanus just said is what I said just above in a somewhat different way.
I agree with you Jander that there are things being talked about here that have not been discussed in this particular fashion before. So what. I also agree that at times the comments from people who have been 'on board' for, in some cases, years, are about as helpful as offering a large glass of Magnolax to someone with intestinal hurry. So what.
It's Spyder's dime and it is him what I listen to most. As Spyder I'm sure would admit, he also has been iterated.
The superior man/woman does not have to be right all the time. The superior man/woman instead gets it right all the time.
lj
Quote from stevegee58:
Hi spydertrader, remember me?
Most definitely. I trust the markets continue to provide you with profit. Thanks for posting the web site link. I'm confident many will find it helpful.
- Spydertrader
I did not intend my post to provide an answer that was not helpful but to provide you the post where he clearly stated that the term FTT is a vocabulary term.
Basically a change signal (JW, FBO, etc) in your resolution causes price to not make it to the left trendline and we refer to that event as the FTT.
I look for different change signals that will create a FTT, I don't look for a "FTT" change signal.
BTW. I only use the ES as well.
HTH