Iterative Refinement

[LittleMac]

So if may chime in here then the 7-22 11:30 ES bar in question neither had a pennant FBO because it never broke the flat top pennant which formed and then closed within the pennant(hence FBO).

It didnt reach peak volume because the bar was decreasing red and it also did not have decreased volume because the bar was colored redand not black.... therefore it cant be an FTT

This seems very suspect to me and is probably wrong but thats how Im looking at it in my mind

 

[stevegee58]

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% Insider Owned: > 25%
% Institutional Owned: > 25%

I know I sound kinda like a shill but the site is so powerful I'm surprised it's free.

Hi spydertrader, remember me?

 

[Jander]

Todays Chart

I am trying to get caught up on all the good discussion throughout the day. I did have one question : Does bars 6-7-8 sequence today qualify as the jokari window change as detailed by Spyder today? I had annotated it as such this morning and meant to discuss it later.

 

[romanus]

Quote from LittleMac:

So if may chime in here then the 7-22 11:30 ES bar in question neither had a pennant FBO because it never broke the flat top pennant which formed and then closed within the pennant(hence FBO).

It didnt reach peak volume because the bar was decreasing red and it also did not have decreased volume because the bar was colored redand not black.... therefore it cant be an FTT

This seems very suspect to me and is probably wrong but thats how Im looking at it in my mind

you're looking at the wrong bar. take a look at my post, I cut of the rest of the chart.
it's the bar bfore that, it shows increasing black volume and decreased volatility (accidentally it also shows lateral movement on increased volume, which is also a change signal).
this is the bar that constitutes a change on tape level but not on a traverse level.

 

[Jander]

Quote from LittleMac:

.... therefore it cant be an FTT

I think you are confusing the various signals of change discussed today with the ftt, which is a change signal itself.

 

[ljyoung]

Quote from Spydertrader:

Before everyone heads too far off the reservation here, allow me to provide the correct answer for the Three of these things belong together ...

The examples which belong together are ...

Jokari Window (decreasing Volume after increasing Volume)
Pennant Break Out FBO
Peak Volume

The example which stays by itself is ...

Increased Volume with Decreased Volatility

As to the why for each group, the first group (of three) each requires three bars to create the signal.

The Jokari Window has decreasing Volume after increasing Volume. That increasing Volume part has to increase over something. That something is a third bar.

A Pennant Break Out FBO also has three bars. Two bars form the actual pennant (FTP, FBP or Sym), while the third bar creates the FBO.

Peak Volume also needs three bars to create acceleration of the Gaussians Slope.

However, Decreased Volatility with Increased Volume only requires two bars to create its signal. Since we create 'tapes' out of two adjacent bars, this signal for change occurs on the 'tape' level. The other three require three bars and as such form on a Traverse level or higher.

- Spydertrader

Too cool Spyder. I'm giving myself a gentleman's 'D' for getting the pennant BO/FBO. I did not know what peak volume was but do now. I did not realize that the decreased Vy with increased V was restricted to a 2 bar comparison, but do now.
It is Mr. Jokari that shows how a human mind (mine) can 'skip over' something. It makes perfect sense that in order for something to be increasing there must be a comparison of 2 bars but that in order for something to be decreasing with respect to something that was increasing requires 3 bars.
Now to go back and see if all that other stuff that's been boiling for the last couple of days makes sense.

lj

 

[LittleMac]

Quote from romanus:

you're looking at the wrong bar. take a look at my post, I cut of the rest of the chart.
it's the bar bfore that, it shows increasing black volume and decreased volatility (accidentally it also shows lateral movement on increased volume, which is also a change signal).
this is the bar that constitutes a change on tape level but not on a traverse level.

So essentially the 11:25 bar that closed at 11:30 had increased volume with decreased volatility. This bar was the HH of the blue traverse but gave a tape signaled change(FTT) whatever you want to call it and we don't annotate on the tape level, therefore the annotation for an FTT is correctly not there

Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Jander]

Quote from LittleMac:

So essentially the 11:25 bar that closed at 11:30 had increased volume with decreased volatility. This bar was the HH of the blue traverse but gave a tape signaled change(FTT) whatever you want to call it and we don't annotate on the tape level, therefore the annotation for an FTT is correctly not there

Correct me if I'm wrong

Ahh I was looking at the wrong bar

That makes sense, if that is indeed what Spyder was pushing us towards

EDIT: That would also seem to apply to the 11:10[closing] bar that began the move from pt2 to pt3 ?

 

[LittleMac]

Quote from Jander:

Ahh I was looking at the wrong bar

That makes sense, if that is indeed what Spyder was pushing us towards

EDIT: That would also seem to apply to the 11:10[closing] bar that began the move from pt2 to pt3 ?

Makes sense if you think about the fact that if the change is in the tape then it is not in the traverse.... and thus you can expect the traverse to end up being fanned out.

Very hard to see thats the reason it is not an FTT of the traverse though.

 

[ljyoung]

Quote from Spydertrader:

Quiz: Why do we not have a signal for change on Bar Six?

- Spydertrader

So returning to bar 6, seeing as there is no peak volume, Vy/V or pennant BO/FBO effects the only thing left is JW. The decreasing V compared to increasing V indicates a hold is called for in anticipation of a retracement move or an RTL fan but not a reversal of trend.

lj