Iterative Refinement

[cnms2]

Better stick to the ES 5 min bars, and look to the ES 1 min bars for intra-bar activity during debriefing. Also, don't forget that you can have an FT3. It shows increased volume, and it is an FTT too.

Sometimes the change happens slowly and it spans over several 5 minute bars, other times it's very quick and it happens inside one single bar, so if you want to see how it develops you have to look with a magnifier (I mean at a finer resolution), e.g. 1 minute or finer. Eventually you'll be able to see it spanning nicely on several bars.

Quote from romanus:

OK, ...

 

[TIKITRADER]

ES M8 Daily Chart May / 9 / 2008


ES Daily bar made a LL and a LH today on decreased volume.

The close of the daily bar was 63% of the days range

 

[romanus]

Quote from Spydertrader:

It also has Price moving down from the High of the bar down to where the bar closed. Since black Volume cannot cause Price to move lower, change occured within the bar (Up on black down on red).

I am able to see that.

Quote from Spydertrader:

However, what we do see is Price moving lower on an increasing black volume bar, and since this cannot ever materialize on black Volume, we know red Volume has moved into the bar, and we also know (becuase we know the sequences of Price and Volume) that this must be decreasing Volume.

I am able to see that, either.

Quote from Spydertrader:

In the previous example I provided, you have chosen to view the market as only providing signals at the end of the bar.

It is quite clear to me now that Jokari window is not intended to be applied at the ends of arbitrarily chosen time frames.

Quote from Spydertrader:

Certainly, you've seen an IBGS devlop on increasing Volume. By your current view of the Jokari Window, you could not expect the trend to change after witnessing such an event.

There is no doubt that my current interpretation of Jokari Window is incorrect. Making the judgement whether or not the Volume is Up or Down and compared to what and on what time frame remains an elusive skill for me.

Quote from Spydertrader:

Again, climb out of the rabbit hole, take a look at something which provides you confusion, do not type sixteen paragraphs of how you viewed it, and then, try walking through the subtle differences between the areas of confusion, and areas which have clarity.

I apologize for a long winded post. I was hoping to clarify the specifics of how others may be able apply Jokari Window correctly.

Quote from Spydertrader:

Start with the 15:45 (close of the bar) period. Increasing Volume, and a higher high, if you can see this bar as change, then you have a start, if you cannot see this bar as change, then we need to review.

The logic applied to determine 1545 bar as a change is clear to me. In fact all the concepts (price and volume behaviour in channels, FTT’s, formations, YM permissons, sequences, just to mention a few) on which methodology rests appear to me to be bound by an ironclad logic.

Again, apologies for long posts and cluttering the screen, just really wanted to hammer out the correct way to apply the Jokari Window.

Thank you, Spydertrader for taking your time to respond. Your guidance is really appreciated.

 

[Spydertrader]

Quote from romanus:

Again, apologies for long posts and cluttering the screen, just really wanted to hammer out the correct way to apply the Jokari Window.

Again, no need for apologies. You attempted to work through the logic in the best way you knew how. I want you to see that by following that path, you reached several dead ends. As such, I want you to see it best to change paths. In other words, your current mental 'filter' has skewed your perceptions preventing you from 'seeing' the entire picture. You have parts of the picture, just not all.

Instead, start with what you do know. When an error is made, note the time / bar number. Then later, review the area in question in an effort to see what subtle differences exist.

While you may see the 15:45 (close of) Bar as change, have you articulated why you see it as change - even though it appears to violate the Jokari Window? What is it about that specific bar which informs your brain to 'see' change? What about the 15:15 (close of) bar? 15:55 (close of) Bar?

What common theme exists between these seemingly completely different Price bars?

- Spydertrader

 

[Spydertrader]

Quote from sscott:

Price volatility and direction is proportional to volume.

The above quoted text summarizes the essence of The Price - Volume Relationship.

What other 'facts' do we know about this methodology?

- Spydertrader

 

[cnms2]

Decreasing red volume in down trend means lateral movement. Today's SPY bar shows an IBGS up. ESM8's RTH shows the same. These seem to indicate a Pt2 in a down channel. WMCN? PT3, then increasing red volume. WMnCN? Increasing black volume, and price moving up.

Quote from TIKITRADER:

ES M8 Daily Chart May / 9 / 2008


ES Daily bar made a LL and a LH today on decreased volume.

The close of the daily bar was 63% of the days range

 

[cnms2]

The price is waltzing in channels: 1-2-3, 1-2-3, ...

Quote from Spydertrader:

The above quoted text summarizes the essence of The Price - Volume Relationship.

What other 'facts' do we know about this methodology?

- Spydertrader

 

[ehorn]

My view of the day (ES) attached

Quote from Spydertrader:

What other 'facts' do we know about this methodology?

- Spydertrader

Channels contain price and containers overlap. Containers are within containers and provide dynamic S/R in ST, IT, and LT.

 

[cnms2]

Besides all three ending in ... 5 (0 on my chart) ? , and all three closing bellow their openings? All three show various signals of change.

Quote from Spydertrader:

... While you may see the 15:45 (close of) Bar as change, have you articulated why you see it as change - even though it appears to violate the Jokari Window? What is it about that specific bar which informs your brain to 'see' change? What about the 15:15 (close of) bar? 15:55 (close of) Bar?

What common theme exists between these seemingly completely different Price bars?

- Spydertrader

 

[ehorn]

Quote from cnms2:

Besides all three ending in ... 5 (0 on my chart) ? , and all three closing bellow their openings? All three show various signals of change.

They all show reversion back into the channel.