Iterative Refinement

[ehorn]

It is great to see more people posting there ES-5M charts as of late. I learn alot from comparing charts.

One observation though is the lack of Carry-Over (CO) channels on many charts. IMHO, these longer term containers are VERY valuable and can add a level of insight and clarity to the present days unfolding events and greatly aid in anticipation.

For instance, on Fridays chart, take a look at how the morning channel approached the LTL from the CO channel of thursday. A person who had annotated this channel might have observed the test, and bounce accompanied by extreme volume and, given our knowledge of these concepts, concluded that we had a nice FBO on the CO and an FTT of our morning channel.

Just a friendly (and hopefully useful) reminder of some of the concepts which, while seemingly simple, can provide added context for a trader and, if used properly, add to his/her profits quite handsomly.

EDIT: I am having difficulty uploading my chart image

 

[Tums]

Quote from cunparis:

...
I remember bundlemaker saying Spyder told him to wait until 2 (or was it 1? I forget and can't find the post) bars after the FTT. But usually by then the entry is too risky.

I would prefer a reference to a quotation of this nature.
Each instruction is given with a reason. We must understand the context in which the method applies.

You don't remember precisely what someone told someone something?
What is the point of bringing this up? To add mud to your muddy water?
I don't think I want to handle my money in this manner.






p.s. Unfortunately Bundlemaker disclosed that a lot of people told him a lot of things. You will read about them in the later part of the Futures Journal.

 

[Avi 8]

Quote from cunparis:

...Bundlemaker's video helped me...

A very good source for learning to annotate. Another good source was himself and the path he chose - not following his own instructions, let alone the instructor's. The point is to read the futures journal, follow the directions, and don't invent stuff.

Here is a great example of one who has mastered 'M':

One of his first charts:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1498884

Compared to now:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1897216

One could use his charts to learn and compare.

 

[Tums]

Quote from callmate:
Read this please
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...hlight=laterals and formations&pagenumber=888

What a gem from Pepe.
Thanks to Callmate for bringing it back.
This piece definitely worth re-reading.

 

[guavaman]

Quote from cunparis:

it seems unfair that the people who participated in the futures journal were able to post their charts, ask questions, and get feedback to help them improve. Whereas now, a year later, those of us reading the futures journal are a bit handicapped without this luxury.

Yes, having a gaggle of helpful/ concerned people with a working knowledge of this method that are very willing to share their hard earned information does seem a wee bit harsh and unfair........

 

[ivob]

Quote from cunparis:


...On the other hand, it seems unfair that the people who participated in the futures journal were able to post their charts, ask questions, and get feedback to help them improve. Whereas now, a year later, those of us reading the futures journal are a bit handicapped without this luxury. For example, it's possible to make mistakes annotating throughout the entire journal without realizing it.
..

I disagree. Feel free to post your fully annotated chart here every day and there are a lot of people willing to comment. More than one year ago many of us posted their chart every day for a period of time. Right now others do the same.

It's in our own interest to comment and help. Commenting on your chart and giving tips forces me to think about it thoroughly. After all I don't want to post a crappy answer So I learn from your charts. Thank you for posting them.

regards,
Ivo

 

[cunparis]

Read this please
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...hlight=laterals and formations&pagenumber=887

And this

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...hlight=laterals and formations&pagenumber=888

Study Spyder's charts in the futures jouranl, do you see what I see? [/B]

Thanks Callmate for the links. I'm definitely going to be studying them. They're from the month of September and I'm currently finishing up May so that's why I haven't seen them yet.

I love spyder's charts and that's why I check the IR thread to see the charts and compare them to mine. Sometimes (often) I see flaws annotated and I'm not sure exactly how to tell they're flaws. I think that will come later in the journal, possibly in september with the links you posted.

 

[cunparis]

Quote from callmate:

Learning to use the search button will prove very useful

Here

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...light=laterals and formations&pagenumber=1450

Please read on

I spend hours a day searching ET and reading. That's not the problem.

You've provided me with some very useful links, but they are links to material in the journal that I have not yet reached. If I read your links I will be skipping ahead. If Spyder wanted us to read about these earlier on (May in my case) he would have put them in the syllabus in May right? I don't want to second guess the learning process (like I did by using the sim).

 

[cunparis]

Quote from Tums:

I would prefer a reference to a quotation of this nature.
Each instruction is given with a reason. We must understand the context in which the method applies.

You don't remember precisely what someone told someone something?
What is the point of bringing this up? To add mud to your muddy water?
I don't think I want to handle my money in this manner.

The point in bringing it up is because it was relevant to the problem I'm experiencing and it was relevant to the questions I was asking.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83604&perpage=6&pagenumber=483

First, I followed Spyder's suggestion to NOT annotate an FTT UNTIL the bar AFTER the bar I thought was an FTT closed. I did this for a good week or so. It quickly became painful to wait that long, but it sure cured my earliness.

So then my thinking was if you annotate an FTT a bar after, aren't you too late? If your entry is a bar late, it might be much higher than the FTT. And then if price reverses and goes back down, your position can quickly become negative.

 

[Avi 8]

Quote from cunparis:

...So then my thinking was if you annotate an FTT a bar after, aren't you too late? If your entry is a bar late, it might be much higher than the FTT. And then if price reverses and goes back down, your position can quickly become negative.

Late for what?

I hope it isn't for a trade, because trading is the fourth step in learning, not the first.

If one is not trading, then a 'position' can NOT become negative.