Iterative Refinement

[ang_99]

How far are you guys and gals letting your trades get away from you before punching out?

I find I am on the right side of the market (mentally) and anticipating an ftt, or pt3 correctly but find myself taking many small losses .25, .50, 1.00... because of getting in a bit early or a bit late. Sooo frustrating.

 

[ivob]

Quote from ang_99:

How far are you guys and gals letting your trades get away from you before punching out?

I find I am on the right side of the market (mentally) and anticipating an ftt, or pt3 correctly but find myself taking many small losses .25, .50, 1.00... because of getting in a bit early or a bit late. Sooo frustrating.

The point is in my opinion to get in on such a moment that if price gets away from you a certain number of tickets then the picture of the market changes and you should be on the other side of the market (reverse). This number of ticks should be minimal.

So you have to know when to get out before you get in. You have to know when the picture of the market changes.
Else you won't know when to exit if price moves against you and it goes more and more and more.... and at a certain point you wish you got out but you don't care anymore and then later it goes even more against you and you wish you cared more some moments before...

I get confused by certain quick ES bars that I thought was incr volume but it is decreasing and sideways movement. Sometimes I have to zoom in on the ES bar using 1 minute graph.

regards,
Ivo

 

[TIKITRADER]

Quote from ang_99:

How far are you guys and gals letting your trades get away from you before punching out?

I find I am on the right side of the market (mentally) and anticipating an ftt, or pt3 correctly

Excellent question.
I have been working on this for a few months now. I found that if I played it really tight and exited with a small loss, the smalls can add up and the trade goes in the correct direction of what I had anticipated anyway.
For myself, I have found letting the trade 'breathe' a little after entry, everything goes well anyway.

As long as I correctly identify the action, the entry can move some, before it moves in the direction for the trade to become profitable. This avoids the whipsaw reverse trades.
Remember I let it breathe when I have correctly identified the action.
I find it very hard to have EVERY trade go as planned on entry without some breathing room.

I think what really matters is once the direction of trade is profitable, it is correctly identifying each future bar to manage the trade that is more important.
I have mentioned that here already, for myself to let the channels play out and not be so quick to take profit.

This is my experience, and it would be great if others could share their experience with live trades of this method.
I see this as a very important step in the learning, if we could post these very questions that some might face, but never bring forward.
Great question, thanks.

 

[ang_99]

Great points guys.. I think I'm going to try dropping down to the 1 minute ES at key points and try to "chisel" the trade with mini (no pun intended) channels/prv and volume formations.

I'll let you know how it goes and try posting some live trades next week for discussion.

 

[WGTrader]

Quote from TIKITRADER:

I have found letting the trade 'breathe' a little after entry...

This has been my experience as well. For example when you are in a channel and it has already experienced one VE (or more), a flaw and is well above/below the 20SMA and PRV says "this could be the FTT", then you KNOW that a FTT is just around the corner. If you get in/reverse a little early, don't panic! Give it some room. At some point you will clearly realize that you wrong, only THEN exit or reverse. But my guess is that you will have read the signals correctly and that the trade will be ok. Personally I have found that stepping out a resolution keeps me from getting whip-sawed all over the place! Hope that helps.

 

[ang_99]

I hope jack gets in on this discussion
... I see he's posting again.

 

[TIKITRADER]

Quote from WGTrader:

Personally I have found that stepping out a resolution keeps me from getting whip-sawed all over the place! Hope that helps.

I agree completely with this WG. I can use the YM and if needed the fine resolution tools to assist with an entry, market in, then step out to the 5 minute with a 15 or 30 min. That eliminates the initial trade entry 'toggle' of price (whip saw), until the trade is well on its way, and dominant traverse is now being managed by - bar to bar identification.

 

[ericta]

Quote from ljyoung:

Oh ya. The old flaw-dom thing. YM lateral channel just formed with ES possibly heading towards same. Oh - YM posts a "neutral"

lj

lj,

what's "neutral"?

 

[ericta]

Quote from TIKITRADER:


...
For myself, I have found letting the trade 'breathe' a little after entry, everything goes well anyway.

As long as I correctly identify the action, the entry can move some, before it moves in the direction for the trade to become profitable. This avoids the whipsaw reverse trades.
...

I went back and forth between "tight monitoring" and "breathe a little" at the key moments for couple of rounds now. Some exercises futile and some are rewarding. At this point I'm back in tight monitoring round again. for me, the debate has always been trading either FTT or post-FTT (for confirmation). My understanding is post-FTT trading requires a buffer zone not because a trader is less experienced, but the "post" situation forced.

This is just my view, might be totally BS.

ER

 

[TIKITRADER]

Quote from ericta:

I went back and forth between "tight monitoring" and "breathe a little" at the key moments for couple of rounds now.

ER

Thanks for your feedback on this.

Everyone will have a different approach as to the entry of their trade.

I have entered on FTT's that continued in the new direction smoothly.
I have entered on FTT's that had quit a bit of volatility and whip saw -
that changed on how I look at my entry.

I realized it was extremely difficult for myself, for every entry to go perfect without some movement of price at times.
Taking the advice of a 50+ year veteran of the floor of the AMEX that is a friend of mine.
He has been speaking to me on this subject recently. I had been playing it so tight on entries that I kept myself getting stopped out of all the moves that were correct.
Those small losses added up!
I was given the advice to give it a little room if I am taking the correct action after monitoring, analyzing, and a decision is made.

After all, if my MADA is correct, stay with the trade entry.
A mistake will surface at times, they happen.
Staying with the 5 minute ES, and using different fractals as needed, helps to manage the entry.
Price will still move, fractals can help reduce the noise.
I know the road ahead is one that may lead to SCT. Until then it is entry- exit based on Hershey for myself and
will continue to share my experience on this as the months pass, as good will arise for all in sharing.
I feel I am doing well so far, but I don't want anyone to think it has been easy.
I have come across many bumps along the way, just part of the learning.