Iterative Refinement

[ehorn]

Quote from jbarnby:

Oh no...don't assume anything about my charts. If this is the case then I annotated the tapes today, not the traverses!! I'm just basing my theory on the same elements that construct a channel.

Well I think your chart looks excellent as I study it. The biggest problem I am having is nailing down the nomenclature.

In your chart I see the tapes annotated (thin gray lines). and I also see the channels annotated (P1,2,3's) So the traverses would be considered the fractal between tapes and channel? (i.e. the movement from PT to PT on to the end effects)

I am sorry to be asking for confirmation on such an elementary topic. I just want to be certain that I am understanding the concept and communicating it correctly.

I am focused on trading the channels you have annotated (PT1 to FTT). That is where my focus has been. So for the day I should be making 1 entry, 3 reverses, and 1 exit (ideally to remain on the same fractal)

When I look at your chart there is some real elegance and simplicity (for lack of a better term)... Everything just looks right.

Thanks very much for posting it.

 

[Spydertrader]

Quote from Jander:

For sure we need two tapes in one direction, with an opposing, non dominant one. I believe we can also have two same-direction tapes seperated by lateral movement.

Excellent. Now one needs a definition for 'Lateral Movement' which includes all manner of things which create such an event. What types of things cause the trader to 'see' the market as moving sideways?

- Spydertrader

 

[TIKITRADER]

ES U8 Daily Chart August 1 2008

 

[jbarnby]

Quote from ehorn:

So the traverses would be considered the fractal between tapes and channel? (i.e. the movement from PT to PT on to the end effects)

I believe you are correct here, that the traverse is the fractal between tapes and channel. However, as I review today's chart it appears to me that some of the "traverses" which I've annotated with the 1,2,3's are actually tapes. In other words, some of them do not have the necessary components to qualify as a traverse. This would suggest that I've jumped fractals...once again. I hope I'm on the right track here!!

 

[ehorn]

Quote from jbarnby:

I believe you are correct here, that the traverse is the fractal between tapes and channel. However, as I review today's chart it appears to me that some of the "traverses" which I've annotated with the 1,2,3's are actually tapes. In other words, some of them do not have the necessary components to qualify as a traverse. This would suggest that I've jumped fractals...once again. I hope I'm on the right track here!!

She is a slippery fish isn't she

Ok, I see that Spyder and Jander are working out some things I need some time to ponder Spyders (and your) thoughts.

Thanks for your contributions.

 

[TIKITRADER]

Inside the tapes of the past 3 daily bars

July 30
July 31
August 1

Daily bars are taped the same as daily chart, and marked with dates.
5 minute bars inside.

 

[Jander]

Quote from Spydertrader:

Excellent. Now one needs a definition for 'Lateral Movement' which includes all manner of things which create such an event. What types of things cause the trader to 'see' the market as moving sideways?

- Spydertrader

After the tape, we would note lateral movement when the closes of the following bars reside within the hi-lo of the bar that ended the dominant move. We would also need a minimum of 3 bars I believe, as 2 bar pennant will not satisfy our requirements. Decreasing volume will be present through the lateral

 

[ehorn]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from Jander:

For sure we need two tapes in one direction, with an opposing, non dominant one. I believe we can also have two same-direction tapes seperated by lateral movement.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excellent. Now one needs a definition for 'Lateral Movement' which includes all manner of things which create such an event. What types of things cause the trader to 'see' the market as moving sideways?

- Spydertrader

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So if I consider (for the purpose of this discussion) that markets are discontinuos (i.e. disregard any carry-over influence for the sake of the discussion).

Then applying the principles discussed (yet again ) here tonight to John's chart

I see the following:

1st Red channel as dom Traverse
Retrace forms as 2nd Blue Channel as non-dom traverse
Forming points for 1st Purple Channel
Back to 3rd Pink Channel as dom-traverse (which produce end effects for channel)

Reset Channel thinking here? In the now?

Begin 1st blue channel as dom traverse
Retrace forms as 2nd pink non-dom traverse
Forming Points for 2nd Orange Channel
Back to 3rd green channel as dom-traverse (which produce end effects for channel)

Which gives me 2 channels and 6 traverses.

 

[Jander]

Quote from ehorn:


Which gives me 2 channels and 6 traverses.

That makes sense to me.. The only thing that bothers me is that last pink traverse. Im not sure why, just sticking out for some reason


PS Very cool graphic there TIKI, you found any practical use for it?

 

[nkhoi]

Quote from Jander:

... What begins a traverse, what ends a traverse? What are all the components of a traverse.? Seems straightforward, and you would think you know based on the ability to annotate them correctly. However, Im gonna ponder it a minute before I answer

given tape -> traverse -> channel
and a channel needs a dom traverse + a non-dom traverse + a dom traverse therefore a traverse needs a dom tape + a non- dom tape + a dom tape, thus a dom tape begin a traverse.