Iterative Refinement

[Jander]

Quote from Avi 8:

Regardless of the intended question, let's use this snippet for a little quiz:

How many traverse level changes appear? Where are they? What are they? and Why?

Beginning with pt1 of the red channel, I count three traverse level signals for change -- 14:30, 14:45, 15:10 . There also appears to be one forming on the last bar of the snippet (jokari window)

These all occur on the gaussian peaks that correspond with the 'points' of the red channel. I dont believe this is a 'peak volume' change as Spyder had laid out a few days ago, although I may have misinterpreted peak volume. I figured it to be volume that is significantly higher than the surrounding volume bars (ie: double), rather than the peak of each gaussian cycle.

That said, my only guess would be jokari window changes as formation FBO does not apply here.

 

[phineas j. w.]

Quote from Avi 8:

Regardless of the intended question, let's use this snippet for a little quiz:

How many traverse level changes appear? Where are they? What are they? and Why?

1: Red down traverse completes its pt3 at 14:45. No flaws appear after that pt3 and price forms a VE at 15:10. (can start looking for Ftt).
I believe there is one traverse level signal for change in this traverse, a Peak volume sequence, completed eob 15:10. There may also be an IBGS on the 15:10 bar (can't tell if close is 1 or 2 ticks above open), but being a single bar signal for change, I'm not sure if it can be both a Tape and a Traverse signal for change.

2: Green up traverse that completes it pt 3 at 15:25. No VE or flaw yet.
Unlikely we will see Ftt yet.
But anyway, I think bar 15:30 is the third bar of a Jokari sequence of inc/dec volume, while price moves higher. So even though it is likely early, this could be a 2nd traverse level signal for change.


I'm not sure I've interpreted Spydertraders recent comments regarding Peak volume or Jokari Window correctly. "Peak Volume also needs three bars to create acceleration of the Gaussians Slope" and "Jokari Window (decreasing Volume after increasing Volume)"

Phineas

 

[Spydertrader]

Quote from dkm:

Am I correct in thinking that we have a jokari window signal for change on bar 6? (lower low, decreasing volume after increasing volume on previous bar)?

Perhaps, you could use the Jokari Window posted by Tikitrader and circle which cell you believe applies.

- Spydertrader

 

[Avi 8]

Quote from phineas j. w.:

1: Red down traverse...

In the voice of Mr. Burns: Excellent!

 

[Jander]

Quote from Avi 8:

In the voice of Mr. Burns: Excellent!

LOL

So it just so happens that:

Spyder annotates his tapes with pts 1,2,3 FTT and in the same width as his traverses in this diagram

These 'tapes' fit the description of a chubby tape/traverse to the T

Spyder has annotated gaussian changes (B2B,R2R) as price moves through tapes in this example

OR

this traverse is created by a down traverse followed by an up traverse... wait a minute, I thought that was the definition of a channel

per Spyders comments on the attached pic

" Price bounces right back into the channel "

 

[Avi 8]

Quote from Jander:

...Spyder annotates his tapes with pts 1,2,3 FTT and in the same width as his traverses in this diagram...

Are these 'tapes' or just annotations on a different 'fractal' and not necessarily 'tapes'.

 

[romanus]

Quote from Jander:

LOL

So it just so happens that:

Spyder annotates his tapes with pts 1,2,3 FTT and in the same width as his traverses in this diagram

These 'tapes' fit the description of a chubby tape/traverse to the T

Spyder has annotated gaussian changes (B2B,R2R) as price moves through tapes in this example

OR

this traverse is created by a down traverse followed by an up traverse... wait a minute, I thought that was the definition of a channel

per Spyders comments on the attached pic

" Price bounces right back into the channel "

1. Notice the date of the pic. Also notice the Spydertrader's recent annotations slightly differ from those on that pic, just like his use of the word 'channel". There's a SYM on that pic, which is probably not annotated because formations have not been introduced at that time. Knowing what we know now, the red down traverse could not be a channel because the increasing black volume on 1445 comes from pennant FBO. I am just attempting to think logically here and integrate what has been presented recently with annotations from last October without any claim that this is the correct explanation.
2. Disregard my previous comments about 'true' FTT and knowing in advance what will turn out as a BO or FBO.
1225 eob yesterday does not represent the change on traverse level as mentioned by Spydertrader. So you were right - one can tell which ones will FBO.

 

[Jander]

Quote from Avi 8:

Are these 'tapes' or just annotations on a different 'fractal' and not necessarily 'tapes'.

Do you have the ability to answer, or shall we just ask each other questions repeatedly?

Is asking questions your way of sidestepping the fact that you dont have an actual answer to the question posed? It's ok to admit that you are not 100% sure... embrace the unkown

 

[Spydertrader]

Quote from romanus:

1. Notice the date of the pic. Also notice the Spydertrader's recent annotations slightly differ from those on that pic, just like his use of the word 'channel". There's a SYM on that pic, which is probably not annotated because formations have not been introduced at that time. Knowing what we know now, the red down traverse could not be a channel because the increasing black volume on 1445 comes from pennant FBO. I am just attempting to think logically here and integrate what has been presented recently with annotations from last October

Nicely done. In addition, another of the 'three times' one can 'see' increasing volume when Price moves in a non-dominant direction (Right trend line Break, Formation BO / FBO or 'Spike' Bar) also appears on the chart.

Once again, the answers people seek exist already in their mind (In other words, everyone learned this lesson a long time ago, and not, during a recent discussion ). People attempting to learn simply need to search for these answers in their own brains, rather than, dismiss out of contempt that which they failed to comprehend.

You bring an important point to the forefront as well. Older charts, viewed through the lens of improved knowledge should appear differently than the first time through last year's journal. Charts prior to the discussion of formations contain loads of 'flaws' throughout. Yet, more recent charts show 'flaws' having been absorbed by formations. Certainly, the bars themselves did not change, but clearly, the trader viewing these bars has.

HTH

- Spydertrader

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2008336>

 

[Jander]

Quote from romanus:
1. Notice the date of the pic.

I noticed

Also notice the Spydertrader's recent annotations slightly differ from those on that pic, just like his use of the word 'channel".

Slightly differ, maybe. I realize that there may be things omitted as he roughly annotated his charts based upon what he had presented at the time. However, I do not believe that he annotated tapes in that manner - EVER. Thus, I think it is logical to say they arent tapes.

Knowing what we know now, the red down traverse could not be a channel because the increasing black volume on 1445 comes from pennant FBO.

I guess you are trying to invalidate the blue up 'traverse', which makes sense. Although, I'm not sure that invalidates the red channel. This could also be annotated as an orange down traverse followed by a lateral traverse to pt 3 of channel (IMO)

I am just attempting to think logically here and integrate what has been presented recently with annotations from last October without any claim that this is the correct explanation.

Thanks romanus... It is this type of discussion that I find beneficial, and I hope others do as well.

So you were right - one can tell which ones will FBO.

Maybe. Maybe Not. Questions I ask that are not addressed/confirmed by Spydertrader are on a list of possible 'correct' assumptions. That question is on the list