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Iterative Refinement
- Thread starter Spydertrader
- Start date
Whether you like it or not, those are the rules established by Jack Hershey from the beginning:Quote from LittleMac:
This is a very laid back nonchalant approach to a very serious and intensive topic(trading) It makes me feel (not to offend anyone) "Hippy-ish" If everything is free and nothing is to be expected of anyone, then wheres the drive, wheres the focus, and what's the point???? What if you cant sort it out for yourself all the time, you should just give up and sacrifice the time you put in?? People put endless hours and energy into this forum to reach a place they believe is worth sacrificing for. Trading is extremely intense financially and emotionally. This is trivializing it.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1983836#post1983836Quote from Spydertrader:
... Jack has zero desire to teach people to trade. Read his posts, and note well, that Jack provides the framework necessary for someone to learn. Jack does not provide laundry lists of rules for trading.
Jack wants people to learn how to think, and in the process of learning to think, one can learn how to trade on their own.
I am glad you sorted this out. Others got there, and so shall we. It's just a matter of placing a proper focus on things that really matter and avoiding energy expenditure on trivialities that don't, such as who's got success with the system and who don't, and who defends it.Quote from LittleMac:
And one day hopefully Ill get there and pay it forward.
Spyder
please see the attached annotated chart with some questions, the answers to which will help me along. (Your previous answers certainly did help and this is a related follow up.)
ES July 25 2008
The context was that I was long early in the green channel but held through the FTT at 10:55 because I incorrectly anticipated continuation, thinking it was a P2 of a possible accelerated channel. It was a wash in the end.
(I think I'm seeing the answers already in terms of WMCN. Anyway, the post is done, and it may help others and I'm sure you can offer a fresh perspective.)
please see the attached annotated chart with some questions, the answers to which will help me along. (Your previous answers certainly did help and this is a related follow up.)
ES July 25 2008
The context was that I was long early in the green channel but held through the FTT at 10:55 because I incorrectly anticipated continuation, thinking it was a P2 of a possible accelerated channel. It was a wash in the end.
(I think I'm seeing the answers already in terms of WMCN. Anyway, the post is done, and it may help others and I'm sure you can offer a fresh perspective.)
Attachments
Quote from LittleMac:
You mistake me for someone who doesn't believe the system works.
I don't know if you believe the system works, nor do I care. I do see however, that you feel quite comfortable elevating yourself to someone who is due more than you actually are.
I have covered the Journal over and over as a whole with numerous specific reviews. The picture becomes clearer each time I do.
There is no consideration given to those who criticize Spyder's efforts because he has done nothing but give thoroughly of himself seeking nothing but your success as repayment.
Next time you feel you aren't being properly provided for, please consider what you can do to improve the situation first.
Come on, cut him some slack. Can't you see he is frustrated as hell from the lack of progress. Everybody has been there at one point or another. Introverts keep it inside earning an ulcer, extroverts spill it out to vent.Quote from guavaman:
I don't know if you believe the system works, nor do I care. I do see however, that you feel quite comfortable elevating yourself to someone who is due more than you actually are.
Keep in mind, there's a big difference between criticizing and complaining. One is a conscious, well thought out act, while another is an emotional reaction. Each deserves an appropriate response. If you can't tell the difference, note Jack's post to him.
Since some people, including myself, are so immersed in studying this, they may find very little life outside of this thread. So posting anything that's not helpful does nothing to restore balance to keep this thread on it's track as intended by Spydertrader.
Quote from guavaman:
I don't know if you believe the system works, nor do I care. I do see however, that you feel quite comfortable elevating yourself to someone who is due more than you actually are.
I have covered the Journal over and over as a whole with numerous specific reviews. The picture becomes clearer each time I do.
There is no consideration given to those who criticize Spyder's efforts because he has done nothing but give thoroughly of himself seeking nothing but your success as repayment.
Next time you feel you aren't being properly provided for, please consider what you can do to improve the situation first.
Please specify what I feel I deserve more of? More than Im Due??Im not asking for dues. Sound like you think I want a cut of Spyders money or something. Im seeking knowledge which is what the forum was created to to offer. You make it seem like Im goin above and beyond this forum and yearning for something more.
I also have to ask you to be fair to what I said earlier, are you profitabale in this method yet? and have you ever got into any sort of thought-provoking disagreement with Spyder? If the answer is no to the first then what have you accomplished. If the answer is no to the second then what have you risked. Are you and Spyder's minds united as one, then you're the first person Ive met to share the same brain.
OR
Do you disagree with and get frustrated at time in your progression of learning the system?(I'm sure you do) And if you do, do you succumb to the bundlemaker aftrer-effect and keep your opinions to yourself, waste time, and hinder your learning? because you're scared of the outfall. I dont know bundlemaker but at least he had the balls to speak up when something bothered him in the course of his learning. You sure cant ever call him a DRONE.
Dont ever make it sound like I have a lack of appreciation for spyders efforts, completely distorted fact.
I dfont know the exact quote but it should apply here and should have been brought up when you bashed bundlemaker into seclusion.
"I dont agree with what you have to say but I will defend to death you're right to say it." Yes It may seem extreme but people in this forum should view ias simple as this....people have a right to their opinions, they have a right to speak up when things become uncertain to them.
I honestly feel you are making a mistake of expending your energy and diverting your focus on matters that will not add to your own progression to success by arguing the subjects that hold zero relevance to what you wish to accomplish - learning how to trade these methods.Quote from LittleMac:
Please specify what I feel I deserve more of? ...
Everyone has beliefs, opinions, and ideas, and are free to express them in the correct "forum"
This may be the crux of the problem here.
This Forum is "Iterative REFINEMENT"
Possibly, starting another forum for beginners to share experiences, and to cull the original Journal, and this one for information in a collaborative effort might be of some value.
These exchanges are not conducive to a learning environment.
This may be the crux of the problem here.
This Forum is "Iterative REFINEMENT"
Possibly, starting another forum for beginners to share experiences, and to cull the original Journal, and this one for information in a collaborative effort might be of some value.
These exchanges are not conducive to a learning environment.
Quote from PointOne:
please see the attached annotated chart with some questions
The Bar to which you refer in your questions represents the only FTT of the day. Price spent the remainder of the day in a down Traverse. In addition, the bar represents an FTT on a Traverse and not a channel. With respect to your Lilac colored annotations, note how increasing black formed at these points (formation break outs).
While I have no doubt others also had drawn in Traverses which simply do not exist one can know this connot be correct by asking oneself, 'What signal for change caused me to reverse short either on the 13:05 or the 13:10 [close of] ES Bar?" (Only using the ES and no medium or fine level tools.)
Hint: There isn't one. And if there isn't one there to get the trader back short, then there must not have been one to place the trader on the long side of the market previously.
Subtle differences exist which require the trader to use differentiation in order to make note of how these changes effect what must come next.
As a result, a Traverse Level Trader entered the day long at 9:55 AM [close of] ES Bar, and reversed short at 11:00 AM [close] ES Bar - holding until End of Day. The market provided no other signals for change - for those trading on the traverses.
I understand how people might think they had a Point Three (simply by watching Volume), but the reality is, today the increasing volume developed primarily from Formation Break Outs. This does not a trend make.
In addition, without a signal for change the traverse simply continues (even though the market required it fan ever so slightly at 13:05).
HTH
- Spydertrader