Iterative Refinement

[Jander]

Ehorn..

First of all congrats on your outstanding day, those results are very impressive.

I was wondering if you could chime in on your decision points at your resolution/skill level? For instance, it seems like you were all over the map in terms of entry/reverse action points. Some entries were near RTL, one near LTL (against dominant trend), and a couple looked like entry mid sym pennant.

I am curious as to whether or not there are definitive 'action points' depending on resolution/skillset. For instance, forest level enter on pt 3 , exit on LTL. Tree level enter/reverse on PT3, FBO, FTT.

As you might guess, I am struggling with the 'D' part of the routine, specifically as it pertains to my level (which Im not 100% sure of either ) I feel confident in my monitoring and annotating a complete chart, and also in the analysis of current sequence position. The possibility exists that I am over confident in my current abilities with respect to the M and A. Just looking for a little guidance as to how to go about determining what level I am at and what constitutes a reverse/entry point on that level. I tend to drop down in the rabbit hole at the decision stage in my attempt to fully annotate every detail.

Apologies to ehorn if I sounded critical, your results dwarf anything Ive put up to date so that was def. not my intention... Thanks for any help you guys can provide..

 

[ehorn]

Hi Jander,

I will do my best (given my skillset) to address your questions and hope my responses do now sound cliche (not my intention) and there is certainly no need for an apology, We are all here to learn and share and there is not much room (or precious time) for pride when we are all taking the same journey and focused on the same goals. The ultimate goal it to obtain knowledge, skill and experience. This takes time and effort (iteratively)

I was wondering if you could chime in on your decision points at your resolution/skill level? For instance, it seems like you were all over the map in terms of entry/reverse action points. Some entries were near RTL, one near LTL (against dominant trend), and a couple looked like entry mid sym pennant.

I am curious as to whether or not there are definitive 'action points' depending on resolution/skillset. For instance, forest level enter on pt 3 , exit on LTL. Tree level enter/reverse on PT3, FBO, FTT.

I would say that this is based on individual knowledge, skill, and experience. We know that we trade in the NOW. As Spyder mentioned previously, the concept of Forest, Tree, Limb were used to help the student 'see' the multi-fractal nature of the markets operations. Now we focus on Continuation and Change, while we are performing housekeeping and being mindful of the various fractals (3 are monitored) and their inter-relationships.

As you might guess, I am struggling with the 'D' part of the routine, specifically as it pertains to my level (which Im not 100% sure of either ) I feel confident in my monitoring and annotating a complete chart, and also in the analysis of current sequence position. The possibility exists that I am over confident in my current abilities with respect to the M and A. Just looking for a little guidance as to how to go about determining what level I am at and what constitutes a reverse/entry point on that level. I tend to drop down in the rabbit hole at the decision stage in my attempt to fully annotate every detail.

As Spyder mentioned in the past, it is important for one to perform an honest self-assessment to identify where one needs to place his/her focus. IMHO, anyone who seeks to make progress will do this consistently. I read your previous paragraph as just that (a self-assessment) and I would humbly encourage you to focus on those areas which you are currently finding difficulty with and/or seeing slow growth. I will say that you are most likely not alone and the areas you mention are probably areas that many (myself included) are working through and refining as we all grow our skills, knowledge, and experience.

I have spoken with Spyder in a few PM's at times when I felt I was stagnating and he recommended to me that I take a small break and let the concepts 'sink-in'. The mind has a way of processing the concepts when we give it time to build itself.

There is not much more I can add that has not already been laid out in these journals. I truly believe that if an individual follows the plan, as laid out, that he/she will see progress in time.

Hope that helps and best wishes on your progress.

 

[ivob]

Hi,

This is very important. We are all happy with our occasional great trade and like to show it. I am also guiltly. But (several) washes are needed in order to have those great trades.

Besides, the great trades that are posted cause other people to also try to pick out this one great trade but this is simply not how the markets work.

So it is somewhat deceiving. It would be nice to also see those washes. I am talking in general here BTW, about people posting trades.

regards,
Ivo

Quote from palinuro:

I find seeing people's actual entries and exits very useful, but I think it would be more helpful to see all of them rather than only the occasional great trade.

P.S.: Great trade!

 

[guavaman]

Quote from romanus:

[*]Quote from makosgu: A long while ago, I got rid of the "I think I get it" because usually it means "I really don't get it". Instead I dwelled on "aha"s. If you THINK you get it, then you probably "DON'T" get it because when you DO get it, it makes perfect sense and you can easily recognize it on the chart because you know EXACTLY what the picture looks like even though you hadn't seen it before... In other words, you know exactly what it looks like and when you see it for the first time, it looks exactly like what you thought it would look like... [/list=1]

Ivob,

I could not disagree with you more. This quote from Mak, generously re-posted by Romanus, is the best possible explanation as to why. If one is washing trades intraday on a consistent basis, then in my experience and opinion, one simply doesn't understand the method well enough to trade it properly. This is not to suggest that without the requisite amount of knowledge one should not attempt to trade it. After all, we need to test our understanding and execution of the method. However, it does mean that until full competency is achieved, undesired results will occur. Having numerous washed trades is an indictment of an individuals ability, not the methods ability so to speak.

Like Mak said, if one think they have achieved full competency, but still have consistently poor results, then you ain't there yet.

-guava

 

[gucci]

Quote from guavaman:

Ivob,

Having numerous washed trades is an indictment of an individuals ability, not the methods ability so to speak.

Like Mak said, if one think they have achieved full competency, but still have consistently poor results, then you ain't there yet.

-guava

Spydertrader, would you please elaborate on the meaning and function of washes in the method. I thought they are essential elements to it? In the futures thread you mentioned, that there are situations where you can have up to six washes in a row. This led me to believe, that they represent nothing else but a necessary tool for a trader to stay on the right side of the market in cases, where either the market signals change too frequently (for example in a tight range) or where the trader misses the market signal for change?

 

[gravitonium77]

The reply to CNMS from Spydertrader got me to thinking. This post is a serious attempt at understanding where and how I need to go from here. It is absolutely NOT meant as any sort of complaint or disrespect toward those who have made an effort to help others far beyond what might be considered reasonable.

The instruction to just and only Monitor is simply common sense, as it’s the first step. What I find personally overwhelmingly troublesome, is that while the instruction is clear that something is missing in the understanding of those given this instruction (myself, Romanus, CNMS, and countless others due to our misguided desire to start trading too soon) I can honestly state I don’t know what it is that I’m supposed to be looking for. If I don’t know what I’m missing, or what form it might take, etc etc; how would I know when I found “it”? Or anyone else in this boat.

It’s not unlike telling a fish who doesn’t understand what water is, to just keep looking and some day it would be able to sense the water’s prescences in some objective way.

In the spirit of these journals, with soooo much giving, it seems highly unlikely that any information per se is being withheld. Is it that understanding what people like CNMS or myself are missing is simply not able to be put into words? Is it something that is more an unconscious thing? This author is not looking for a short cut. He is looking for a sign that he’s found what he’s looking for.

Thank you for taking the time to read this lengthy post.

 

[guavaman]

Quote from gucci:

the meaning and function of washes in the method.

Gucci,

The operative word in my post was "numerous". When fully competent, washed trades are typically the result of sudden and unanticipated moves, such as a "news bar" with the occasional human trait of misidentifying the market's meaning.

Conversely, having many washed trades intraday does not comport with this level of understanding and skill.

 

[Avi 8]

Quote from gravitonium77:

...how would I know when I found “it”?

You will know when it happens.

...myself are missing is simply not able to be put into words? ...

It has been put into words, five journals full of words.

...Is it something that is more an unconscious thing?...

Nope, definately a conscious thing.

 

[gucci]

Quote from guavaman:

Gucci,

The operative word in my post was "numerous". When fully competent, washed trades are typically the result of sudden and unanticipated moves, such as a "news bar" with the occasional human trait of misidentifying the market's meaning.

Conversely, having many washed trades intraday does not comport with this level of understanding and skill.

Thanks, guavaman.

 

[Tums]

Quote from gravitonium77:
The reply to CNMS from Spydertrader got me to thinking. This post is a serious attempt at understanding where and how I need to go from here. It is absolutely NOT meant as any sort of complaint or disrespect toward those who have made an effort to help others far beyond what might be considered reasonable.
The instruction to just and only Monitor is simply common sense, as it’s the first step. What I find personally overwhelmingly troublesome, is that while the instruction is clear that something is missing in the understanding of those given this instruction (myself, Romanus, CNMS, and countless others due to our misguided desire to start trading too soon) I can honestly state I don’t know what it is that I’m supposed to be looking for...

My suggestion...

Go back to look for what Spyder's specification and requirement is for M.
Complete 100% M before embarking on A.