Iterative Refinement
- Thread starter Spydertrader
- Start date
Not sure how to read it... Are all those short trades? I see only SLD 1, then BOT 1 sequences executed at different times. Is this SCT and I don't know how to read it? Please explain. Also, if you're so kind, what tools were you using in this trading instance? I see you traded intrabar, and most your trades were quite short. Thanks.
I did not author the document posted. It came from one of the early question for grob / hershey threads. I expect the original author can more authoritatively comment on the examples. Having said that, your comments with respect to the Outside Bar do not account for any changes which materialize as a result of the Outside Bar - only those which take place after. I encourage you to rethink this viewpoint.
- Spydertrader
I believe that an OB indicates the end of the move in one direction, i.e. moveing the price higher in an up trend, or lower in a down trend, and the beginning of a new trend. An exemple is when a pt2 to pt3 traverse ends, and the post pt3 traverse begins. It is possible for the new trend to be very short, maybe just one bar long, but I can't see how the previous short bar can account for the tape following the OB. If it were a volatility expension situation, the OB bar would have one of its ends inside the short bar. If it were an RTL fan-out, the old tape would've ended, meaning that we're redrawing the RTL of the channel, not of the old tape. It's true that I think from the point of view of fanning-out from pt1, and it might be a different situation when you fan-out from pt3. When an OB happens inside a strong trend it means that a small flaw existed, inside the OB, so the previous bar still doesn't count in the formation of the tape containing the OB.
Could you please explain what I'm missing? Thanks
Could you please explain what I'm missing? Thanks
LOL
I did it.
The number 5 has a little mistake in it. I worked off the left side instead of, correctly, ALWAYS working off the right side.
I do a review with people I mentor and it starts with this illustration. recently I learned to post pics in the text so I will go through the review here and the "logic" of what the first ilustration means.
If you bear with me I will also note why I think it is so important to but the upcoming review in each of our minds.
I'll keep the parts relatively brief and they will be in text that is edited a couple of time before posting.
What you believe an outside bar represents may, or may not, accurately represent what the market tells you - depending on context - in the NOW. As such, one should always strive for definitions which represent a thing in all cases - including those cases not yet fully 'seen' or understood.
Do you 'see' yourself 'jumping' trading fractals with your definitions? What you describe, using standard vocabulary, can only occur during a non-dominant traverse of a Channel. Since channels exhibit a fractal nature, the viewpoint used should also remain fractal in nature. If by 'traverse' you wanted to type, 'retrace' in your post, then you still have the same problem - your focus remains on what develops after - instead of the NOW.
Again, one must remain on the same trading resolution with respect to all portions of the M-A-D-A process. As such, one must understand the changes (or lack there of) which result by the formation of an Outside bar, before one can accurately evaluate the changes which result after an Outside Bar.
I did not state that the changes resulting from an Outside Bar formation account for what comes next, nor did I state that these changes cannot account for what comes next. However, one can determine which statement applies, simply by annotating correctly.
An Outside Bar can create a Volatility Expansion just as easily as a bar which does not have the characteristics of an Outside Bar.
This does not accurately represent how the market works. An Outside Bar can form within the preceding tape. However, an Outside Bar cannot form inside the preceding bar.
An Outside bar may, or may not, provide a signal to 'fan-out' in one directon or another. Placing your focus on this aspect of Monitoring misses the areas requiring the greatest focus.
Again, you have switched trading fractals - this time, even further down the rabbit hole than before. Stop attempting to define an Outside Bar by what you think it, "means." The changes you need to 'see' have nothing to do with 'Vocabulary Words' used to define points in time.
Quote from cnms2:
Could you please explain what I'm missing? Thanks
Set aside what you think you know (for now), and spend a few days learning to thoroughly annotate a chart. Focus on nothing more than the 'M' portion of the M-A-D-A Process. Concern yourself, not at all, with continuation or change, WMCN or taking action. See advice previously given to romanus. Do this over and over until you can clearly 'see' that which you currently view as obscure.
Edit: I see the original author plans to post some commentary on the subject at hand. After reading Jack's posts, I expect you'll have some additional clarity come into focus.
- Spydertrader
Thanks. It is frustrating to be told in vague terms so many times in one post that you are wrong, and not to be provided with at least a vague correct answer. I am always aware of the fractals, and in this particular case we are talking about the 5 minute tape fractal and its impact on the next higher one. I am sure I passed long time ago the M phase, and in spite of your repeated suggestions I don't consider that fully writing down everyting you see on a chart is essential. As you mentioned once, if you see the annotations without wrting them down is the same thing. I felt sent at the corner without deserving it.
I provided you an answer - not one which you wanted, not one which you preferred, but the one you needed.
If you believe this to be the case, then review your definitions - as they do not support this statement.
I believe you believe the above statement to accurately reflect your skill set. However, I can tell you without a doubt you have missed a critical component.
I care not what you believe to be true. I only 'see' what is, and right now, you have missed a critical component of monitoring.
Thank you for proving my point. You do not 'see' what you need to see. Therefore, you need to find it.
You have a choice. Follow the advice provided, or not. I care not what decision you make. However, note well, this isn't the first time you've decided you knew better or (and I quote) " you simply don't view the market that way."
Understand, this isn't my view of how things work. This is how things work. Period.
Should you choose to follow the advice provided, and someday arrive at the ability to 'see' that which you clearly now miss, you'll certainly realize the absurdity of your last sentence, and find yourself thankful for my understanding. For now, I chalk up your lapse in judgement to frustration and a lack of complete understanding of how things work.
Get it straight. You've missed something critical from Monitoring. You can choose to be too proud, or too stubborn, to follow the advice provided, or you can realize someone has just handed you a roadmap to success.
Your call.
- Spydertrader