Iterative Refinement

Got a definite LBDU signal in SKX today to go long. I got in around 20.80. Obviously it had gone up a bit by the time it signalled. So I was in and I had a stop at around 20.40 which seemed like a fair stop. It got triggered by the wend of the day. I know most people dont use stops in equities anymore. So thats not my question. My question here is what happened. I see the increasing red on the 30 min towards the end of the day. What Ive been trying to do regardless is use the signals and get ion on the 30, make channels on the 30 and then move directly to the daily to monitor the trade. Obviously I find paying too much attention to the 30 will get me out early. Anyways, the question is was the down move at the end of the day on the 30 a movement from a point 2 to a point 3? Was it an FBO of the daily maroon?

If the stop wasn't in....should I be in or out at end of day? The stock hit FRV and the daily looks great for a Bruno R but I feel lost as to why it dipped so much end of day. Same thing happened in YTEC in the opposite direction.

I have provided the Daily and the 30.

Comments needed.
 

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Quote from LittleMac:

Should I be in "Daily Chart Monitoring" mode by this point?
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You should be thoroughly annotating your charts before anything else, yet, you didn't. The thirty minute chart shows a Pennant Breakout on increasing red Volume, yet you held long. The next bar provides more of the same increasing red Volume, yet you continued to hold until Price hit your stop.

Previously, I have recommended (on several occassions) a review of certain portions of the methodology. I encourage you to follow those recommendations.

Lastly, if you choose to follow parts of the material presented while ignoring other portions of the fundamentals, the answer to your question, 'what happened?' presents itself quite clearly.

- Spydertrader
 
Quote from TIKITRADER:

WMCN

Discussions of Analysis

Skill improvement drill # 1.2
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Quote from TIKITRADER:

Just a personal thank you for everyone sharing their time. A lot of good can passed around to all.
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Thank You Tiki! :)

EDIT: Uploaded new image.
 

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Quote from Spydertrader:

You should be thoroughly annotating your charts before anything else, yet, you didn't. The thirty minute chart shows a Pennant Breakout on increasing red Volume, yet you held long. The next bar provides more of the same increasing red Volume, yet you continued to hold until Price hit your stop.


- Spydertrader
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I can monitor only til about 2:30 2:45 at max.... at around that time I leave to go to a job i have in the afternoon. At the time I left, there was no pennant and I had this information....Long Signal from the morning, Decreasing Red Volume over the 1:00 and 1:30 bars, and increasing black volume on the 2:00pm bar(what i figured to be a point 3 at 2:00pm). The Daily looked great. Then the pennant formed. But even so if I'm getting in from a beginner level standpoint, then I would have no idea about pennants and such. I have read the journals numerous times(not the futures journal as I wouldn't need to for equities), I cant recite them but I have read them. Using that a pennant BO formed is the reason the trade busted seems more of a futures type answer. I'm really trying to get into a comfort zone with regards to entering a trade based on a signal then moving to the Daily chart then exiting based on the factors listed off of the 30 min chart again. I have gone back to your IAAC example from Journal 3 many times and it has helped.

I have provided my chart of how I had the taped channels and the channels at the exact time they occurred along with FTTs I believed were from the taped channels and what i thought were points 1,2 and 3 up til 2:30.

So.... am I correct in assuming you think it would be best to monitor the 30 min chart throughout the trading day(til 4pm) on the day I entered the trade?

Therefore I would see increasing red over the last three bars on the 30, exit the stock regardless of the signal and totally disregard anything on the daily chart(positive or negative) for at least that first day?
 

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Quote from LittleMac:

So.... am I correct in assuming ...
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The above quoted phrase places people into more problems than I care to count.

Based on your response, it appears as if you feel 'futures' and 'equities' represent two entirely different systems. They don't. The fundamental methods apply to any market on any time frame - provided sufficient liquidity exists.

You wrote, "I have read the journals numerous times (not the futures journal as I wouldn't need to for equities)", yet I have said numerous times how understanding the information provided in all journals benefits those learning the process. In fact, the whole rationale behind merging the equities and futures together in one place stems from this very axiom.

Again, instead of following the recommendations provided, you made a decision which clearly has effected your trading. These aren't 'futures type' answers. The answers represent what signals the market provided. Unable to monitor the market due to working obligations doesn't eliminate the signals. The signals materialize whether you were monitoring or not.

In addition, 'Beginner, Intermediate and Expert' Methods refer less to following a 'laundry list' of items for entry and exit, and more toward how one understands the P-V Relationship and the signals provided by the market. You need to move beyond laundry list entry and exit and into the realm of anticipation.

Listen, this isn't a cut on you. I made the exact same mistake years ago, when I once believed, the futures method 'too confusing,' and seperate from, the Equtities Methods. I wasted loads of time in an attempt to become "the best Beginner Possible" when I first started trading Equities. You need not make the same mistake, or, you can repeat it. The choice remains yours alone.

With respect to when one sees the 'best' use of which chart, again, you misunderstand the market and how it provides signals. Context changes require changes to the answer, so when one asks about using the thirty minute vs the daily, depending on the context, the answer changes from one chart to the other. Ask yourself, 'When do I need more information?" (This differs from points in time when you only think you need more information) When you find yourself asking this question, then pull out the faster fractal charts.

If this sounds familiar, it should. The same thing happens when the YM leads the ES.

- Spydertrader
 
Quote from TIKITRADER:

Just a personal thank you for everyone sharing their time. A lot of good can passed around to all.
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Quote from 5Pillars:

Teamwork my friend -

T ogether

E veryone

A chieves

M ore


:)
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Quote from cnms2:

I guess you can use a 2 min chart of your trading vehicle...
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Good advice, thanks, I've been mulling it over for a while as you can see. :)

It relates also to Spyder's post above. I thought I understood the PV relationship well last year...

Jack once made a comment buried in a reply (probably in lime green) that you should dwell for a while in contemplating the figure-8 lissajoux on the PV matrix and what it means.

Here it is: "Immerse yourself in why the simplest pattern of the variables is a figure 8. It is haunting to go to places that are pure and clean and cast no shadows of uncertainty."

The way the fractals nest is simply beautiful. It is binary. :cool:
 
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