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It MUST be safe now!!!
- Thread starter bungrider
- Start date
"What can be safely said, Madison old pal, is that this operation reduced the potential for terrorism funded and abetted by a ruthless regime with billions of petrodollars to throw at it. Iraq will not threaten us, Israel, or its neighbors again. I know that disappoints you and all...."
That is a point that many are still desperately trying to dodge. Terrorist training camps were found inside Iraq, and there was CIA intelligence that Sadam and Al Qaida joined forces against their common enemy. There is an Arab saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".
Denial, twisting the truth, Denial, small lie, Denial, Fake moral outrage, more Denial.....This is what we get as opposition ! I for one am thankfull that the opposition is so weak, although they gross me out with their total lack of patriotism.
That is a point that many are still desperately trying to dodge. Terrorist training camps were found inside Iraq, and there was CIA intelligence that Sadam and Al Qaida joined forces against their common enemy. There is an Arab saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".
Denial, twisting the truth, Denial, small lie, Denial, Fake moral outrage, more Denial.....This is what we get as opposition ! I for one am thankfull that the opposition is so weak, although they gross me out with their total lack of patriotism.
Quote from hapaboy:
What can be safely said, Madison old pal, is that this operation reduced the potential for terrorism funded and abetted by a ruthless regime with billions of petrodollars to throw at it. Iraq will not threaten us, Israel, or its neighbors again. I know that disappoints you and all....
"Shift in spin"? Good grief. You just can't accept that this operation had several facets to it, not just one. Our administration has never told us otherwise. Your desperate attempts to cling to your rationale is amusing to watch, albeit not as much fun as watching msfe flail aimlessly with ever-decreasing vigor...
So Madison, Alfonso, msfe, et al: Turn off the TV. Turn off the radio. Get off your computer. Try to run from the sights and sounds of a nation newly-liberated, of a joyous populace that can now sleep without the fear of the secret police knocking on their door. Millions are now free, torture will be erased, oil wealth will benefit the people not a tyrant, starvation will become a thing of the past. Go ahead: Ignore it, criticize it, laugh at it, whatever. But above all, know that the world is a better place today, DESPITE YOUR WISHES, HOPES, AND DREAMS THAT IT WERE OTHERWISE.
again, you are arguing a separate point. that the result is favorable does not imply that the means are justified. a vigilante may achieve a 'good' result, but there is a reason that vigilantism is illegal. in this case, you like the vigilante, therefore you cheer him on and justify him.
the problem is when you do not agree with the vigilante's view of justice. perhaps then you will throw apoplectic fits about the need for laws and international diplomacy instead of arrogance and bombs. but such an argument is 'desperate', right? perhaps even traitorous? irrelevant? whatever other neocon foolishness you can think of.
shift in spin - try to find a reference to 'liberation' being the motive for war, or 'operation Iraqi Freedom' dated before Sept. 2002, when the spin du jour was suitcase nukes and aluminium tubes.
presumptuous of you to assume to know my "wishes and hopes" were that the world were a worse place. childish.
Oh boy. We have eliminated a threat to our country, and in doing so freed millions. But you cannot understand why that is a good thing.Quote from Madison:
again, you are arguing a separate point. that the result is favorable does not imply that the means are justified. a vigilante may achieve a 'good' result, but there is a reason that vigilantism is illegal. in this case, you like the vigilante, therefore you cheer him on and justify him.
Madison, I honestly don't think it's worth it to continue this debate. You won't ever advocate preemptive anything until there's a mushroom cloud over the US somewhere - even then I truly wonder if you'd acknowledge the need for action.
I'm sorry, but I feel your We Are the World meek approach to the threats we face only encourages those who would harm us.
Good day.
Quote from hapaboy:
Oh boy. We have eliminated a threat to our country, and in doing so freed millions. But you cannot understand why that is a good thing.
please reread the above posts - again, all else equal, FREE IRAQIS ARE BETTER OFF THAN OPPRESSED IRAQIS. FREEDOM IS A GOOD THING. THAT IS NOT DISPUTED.
however, that is distinct and independent from the HOW THEY ACHIEVE THAT FREEDOM.
they are two SEPARATE ISSUES.
if you rob a bank, and get away with it, you will have more money. having more money is good. better than having less money. however, that DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE ROBBERY.