It is evolution theory that has a huge problem

tim888 · Mar 4, 2012

I never thought of it before but after reading this blog below I realized that it is evolution theory that has a huge problem and not intelligent design. Actually, falsifiability if we accept pessimistic meta-induction means actually getting falsified at some time in the future and intelligent design remains the only possibility.

http://www.digitalcosmology.com/Blo...raw-man-arguments-against-intelligent-design/

Most interesting part is the one debunking the counter-argument against the low probability argument.

futurecurrents · Mar 4, 2012

Yeah, so there is there is slim possibility that evolution is wrong, so what. We can't be sure that in a box all the molecules will not go to one side of the box. We just know it's extremely improbable.

These kind of philisophico/probabilistic arguments tend to ignore some very mechanistic proofs. We can see genes. We can watch fruit flies and bacteria evolve to fit certain environments. We can feel in our hands the fossils. Theories developed to fit physical reality will always trump those to fit abstract constructs.

peilthetraveler · Mar 4, 2012

Quote from futurecurrents:

Yeah, so there is there is slim possibility that evolution is wrong, so what. We can't be sure that in a box all the molecules will not go to one side of the box. We just know it's extremely improbable.

These kind of philisophico/probabilistic arguments tend to ignore some very mechanistic proofs. We can see genes. We can watch fruit flies and bacteria evolve to fit certain environments. We can feel in our hands the fossils. Theories developed to fit physical reality will always trump those to fit abstract constructs.

Dont confuse adaptation with evolution. For instance...if I go out into the sun, i get tanned. My body adapted to the environment for the reason that when you are tanned it reduces UV radiation which can damage DNA & proteins in your body. This is not evolution even though my body changed. Same thing with Astronauts...if they are in space for a long period of time, their bones become less dense because they dont use them as much. That is also not evolution, its adaption.

And just because you have a fossil doesnt mean its millions of years old because somebody said so. Unless of course you believe this is a 40 million year old boot with a fossilized foot & ankle in it.

Eight · Mar 4, 2012

All these people put micro evolution and macro evolution in the same basket then try to tell you that micro evolution proves "Evolution". They won't look at the idea that they use circular reasoning to get to their conclusions.. It's just a big treadmill you get on and you work real hard to try to get them to WAKE UP and examine their assumptions... I don't think very many are capable of doing that. They have too much fun spewing their ignoramusness [if that isn't a word it should be] and parading their pride of knowledge.

The "science" people control the venue for the debate and they don't take kindly to people arguing things out for themselves or coming to conclusions without their supervision, so be careful about starting debates on the internet, ok? The Smithsonian Police are patrolling in a neighborhood near you!

futurecurrents · Mar 4, 2012

Quote from peilthetraveler:

Dont confuse adaptation with evolution. For instance...if I go out into the sun, i get tanned. My body adapted to the environment for the reason that when you are tanned it reduces UV radiation which can damage DNA & proteins in your body. This is not evolution even though my body changed. Same thing with Astronauts...if they are in space for a long period of time, their bones become less dense because they dont use them as much. That is also not evolution, its adaption.

And just because you have a fossil doesnt mean its millions of years old because somebody said so. Unless of course you believe this is a 40 million year old boot with a fossilized foot & ankle in it.

But you see, there is thing called mutation. Mutations sometimes make that creature better adapted. The offspring of those do better. If this happens radically or long enough the creature evolves into a new species.

I can't believe there are still so many people who don't believe in evolution and I'm having to argue about it. Mind boggling really. I'm not sure if it's ignorance, stupidity or delusion brought on by religion. I suspect it's usually a combination.

And no, geologists don't just beleive it because someone said so. There are multilple methods to date fossils and the strata in which they are found. That last statement proves you haven't a clue about how geology works or want to know about it.

Do you also believe the earth is 6000 years old?

futurecurrents · Mar 4, 2012

Quote from Eight:

All these people put micro evolution and macro evolution in the same basket then try to tell you that micro evolution proves "Evolution". They won't look at the idea that they use circular reasoning to get to their conclusions.. It's just a big treadmill you get on and you work real hard to try to get them to WAKE UP and examine their assumptions... I don't think very many are capable of doing that. They have too much fun spewing their ignoramusness [if that isn't a word it should be] and parading their pride of knowledge.

The "science" people control the venue for the debate and they don't take kindly to people arguing things out for themselves or coming to conclusions without their supervision, so be careful about starting debates on the internet, ok? The Smithsonian Police are patrolling in a neighborhood near you!

So all the evolutionary biologists, geologists, paleontologists and geneticists are wrong but a bunch of delusional religious nutjobs are right.

The word insane comes to mind.

Eight · Mar 5, 2012

Quote from futurecurrents:

So all the evolutionary biologists, geologists, paleontologists and geneticists are wrong but a bunch of delusional religious nutjobs are right.

The word insane comes to mind.

and there it is, the rest of the brilliant argument! Ad Hominem, appeal to experts, reframing the debate from scientific and philosophical idea exchange to "science vs faith".. all rolled up into one sentence.. What a good boy, you regurgitate your classroom experience so well! Go to the head of the class!! You should apply to the Smithsonian for the evolution police force academy...

pspr · Mar 5, 2012

Quote from Eight:

and there it is, the rest of the brilliant argument! Ad Hominem, appeal to experts, reframing the debate from scientific and philosophical idea exchange to "science vs faith".. all rolled up into one sentence.. What a good boy, you regurgitate your classroom experience so well! Go to the head of the class!! You should apply to the Smithsonian for the evolution police force academy...

He can't join the evolution police <s>force</s> farce. He already has a full time job with the Man Made Global Warming Police Farce.

Free Thinker · Mar 5, 2012

Quote from futurecurrents:

But you see, there is thing called mutation. Mutations sometimes make that creature better adapted. The offspring of those do better. If this happens radically or long enough the creature evolves into a new species.

I can't believe there are still so many people who don't believe in evolution and I'm having to argue about it. Mind boggling really. I'm not sure if it's ignorance, stupidity or delusion brought on by religion. I suspect it's usually a combination.

And no, geologists don't just beleive it because someone said so. There are multilple methods to date fossils and the strata in which they are found. That last statement proves you haven't a clue about how geology works or want to know about it.

Do you also believe the earth is 6000 years old?

ah, the childlike faith and gullibility of the religious mind:
http://paleo.cc/paluxy/boot.htm

Brass · Mar 5, 2012

Quote from futurecurrents:

But you see, there is thing called mutation. Mutations sometimes make that creature better adapted. The offspring of those do better. If this happens radically or long enough the creature evolves into a new species.

I can't believe there are still so many people who don't believe in evolution and I'm having to argue about it. Mind boggling really. I'm not sure if it's ignorance, stupidity or delusion brought on by religion. I suspect it's usually a combination.

And no, geologists don't just beleive it because someone said so. There are multilple methods to date fossils and the strata in which they are found. That last statement proves you haven't a clue about how geology works or want to know about it.

Do you also believe the earth is 6000 years old?

Forget it, FC. These guys will never pick up a book and actually read it. They get all their "thinking" points from predigested slant pieces consistent with their underlying narrative. It will not change. The moment they bought into their ideology, their evolution, so to speak, stopped in its tracks. On the plus side, natural selection will thankfully take its course, and their progeny will either smarten up or eventually disappear. Unfortunately, it'll take a while. (A watched pot never seems to boil, eh?)