It Begins. Holder Announces Plan To Ban Semi-Auto Guns

Quote from IShopAtPublix:

When I drive around in Orlando, it is constantly in the back of my mind that some idiots can go "crazy with a gun" on me. And I don't like this feeling.
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You have legitimate concerns. Get a nine and a carry permit (if you don't already have them). Go to the range and get some training so you know what you’re doing. You'll feel better. And if you are worried about hurting someone, even though they may want to seriously hurt you, get a high end taser. You might still get sued by the criminal you use it on, but you'll know you didn't hurt anyone defending yourself. I'm not being sarcastic.

Try embracing your right to self defense instead of justifying the elimination it.

Use your google and discover how law enforcement feels about conceal carry for law abiding citizens in various states and cities. You might be surprised.
 
Quote from DmanX:

OK, nevermind, you can't see the error in your arguments. I don't think you want to since you probaly feel you're under attack.

Good news is that there will always be judges and rational legislators who understand the slippery slope that those kinds of strawman arguments lead to.

Whatever your personal issue is with guns... perhaps you were a victim of gun violence or lost someone close to it (if so, I'm sorry).
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I don't have any emotional issues regarding guns let's not make me out to be a test case. Certain things are in the back of my mind and they are quite rational. I wish Orlando had 20,000 cops.
 
Quote from IShopAtPublix:

I don't have any emotional issues regarding guns let's not make me out to be a test case. Certain things are in the back of my mind and they are quite rational. I wish Orlando had 20,000 cops.
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Your thoughts are not wholly rational. Logic is faulty in the crux of your argument. You routinely extrapolate low probability incidences as if they are or can be the norm. Plus you fail to take into account that the majority of gun violence cases in the US are committed by those who unlawfully posses a firearm.

There are tens of millions of citizens in the US who lawfully posses millions of firearm who have never committed any act of gun violence against another person. Why should they be disenfranchised on account of those who unlawfully possess a firearm or the exceedingly rare case of a lawful owner going rogue?

What's more, the majority of gun related deaths in the US are suicides. Yeah, surprising isn't it?

The obtuse case you are attempting to make for outright banning is based on hypothetical fantasies extrapolated from rare incidences. I suppose you have to go there since no data supports the outright banning of guns. What the data does support is better enforcement of the laws currently on the books which will help us find and close the loopholes. Especially interstate loopholes.

Lastly, if you look at state to state stats on violent crime, you will find that knives and other weapons together account for more homicides in many states regardless of their firearm laws, with gun violence taking a majority where "urban gang" culture and poverty exists. And if you break it down by race, a significantly higher incidence of gun violence is disproportionately committed by Blacks and Latinos who are known to acquire firearms illegally. You don't hear about that often in the media - mostly when whites "go bad" with guns. Which happens to a much rarer degree given the socio-economics of their situations.

I know I'm not going to convince you. It's hard to convince individuals who have irrational fears or other deep seeded issues. But politicians are forced to look at the actual facts and attempt to create public policy to address it. Sometimes they react in odd ways to pander to an irrational public. But most of the time they take into account the facts which temper and form the crux of their policy. I'd love to see you take account of the facts and draw rational conclusions.

Attempting to reach ZERO gun violence is as fanciful as attempting to reach ZERO violence in general.

Have a good one.
 
Quote from DmanX:

Your thoughts are not wholly rational. Logic is faulty in the crux of your argument. You routinely extrapolate low probability incidences as if they are or can be the norm. Plus you fail to take into account that the majority of gun violence cases in the US are committed by those who unlawfully posses a firearm.

There are tens of millions of citizens in the US who lawfully posses millions of firearm who have never committed any act of gun violence against another person. Why should they be disenfranchised on account of those who unlawfully possess a firearm or the exceedingly rare case of a lawful owner going rogue?

What's more, the majority of gun related deaths in the US are suicides. Yeah, surprising isn't it?

The obtuse case you are attempting to make for outright banning is based on hypothetical fantasies extrapolated from rare incidences. I suppose you have to go there since no data supports the outright banning of guns. What the data does support is better enforcement of the laws currently on the books which will help us find and close the loopholes. Especially interstate loopholes.

Lastly, if you look at state to state stats on violent crime, you will find that knives and other weapons together account for more homicides in many states regardless of their firearm laws, with gun violence taking a majority where "urban gang" culture and poverty exists. And if you break it down by race, a significantly higher incidence of gun violence is disproportionately committed by Blacks and Latinos who are known to acquire firearms illegally. You don't hear about that often in the media - mostly when whites "go bad" with guns. Which happens to a much rarer degree given the socio-economics of their situations.

I know I'm not going to convince you. It's hard to convince individuals who have irrational fears or other deep seeded issues. But politicians are forced to look at the actual facts and attempt to create public policy to address it. Sometimes they react in odd ways to pander to an irrational public. But most of the time they take into account the facts which temper and form the crux of their policy. I'd love to see you take account of the facts and draw rational conclusions.

Attempting to reach ZERO gun violence is as fanciful as attempting to reach ZERO violence in general.

Have a good one.
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Are you people dense or something? Another person pointing out how blacks acquire weapons illegally anyway and they won't respect any gun law in any case. How many times I have to repeat it, it is not about their respect for the law, it is about availability of guns. In the US guns are easy to acquire BY ANYONE. Therefore a person with criminal intent will do so with ease.

Here is an example that will crush you all and your silly remarks about "low probability" events. Why do you think Courthouses, all federal buildings, and airplanes do NOT allow you to carry firearms onto the premises? That ban is regardless of criminal record or concealed arms permit. Now surely "law abiding" citizens can be trusted to behave themselves and counter any possible threat from evildoers.

Authorities decided that the risk of catastrophe by a suicidal madman, criminal with a grudge, some fraudster or some other "evildoer" is too great. People in government decided they don't want to experience that risk but they subject private citizens to it.

Everyday people have to live with the risk of a madman opening fire on them, crimes of passion, gang activity, etc.

The courthouse illustrates THE REAL BELIEF OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AS TO LEVEL OF RESPONSIBILITY OF THE AVERAGE CITIZEN. (EVEN THE ONE WITH THE CONCEALED FIREARMS PERMIT AND NO CRIMINAL RECORD)
 
I am as pro RTKBA as anyone. I even believe American Citizens should be able to own fully automatic weapons and .50 cals.

However, I think this fear about Obama restricting RTKBA is much ado about nothing, especially in the wake of the S.Ct decision in Heller.
 
Quote from IShopAtPublix:

it is about availability of guns.
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And how exactly would you eliminate the availability of guns?

Didn't work for alcohol.

Isn't working for meth, coke, etc....

What makes you think that it is even remotely possible to substantially reduce the availability of guns for crims?

The only people you'll be affecting is law abiding folks.

The end point of your argument is that some tragic incidents like school shootings, road rage shootings, etc will be reduced or possibly eliminated.

The flip side is that people will not be able to defend themselves. Relying on the popo is a dumb statement. They can only react AFTER the deed, not prevent it.
 
Quote from IShopAtPublix:

Are you people dense or something? Another person pointing out how blacks acquire weapons illegally anyway and they won't respect any gun law in any case. How many times I have to repeat it, it is not about their respect for the law, it is about availability of guns. In the US guns are easy to acquire BY ANYONE. Therefore a person with criminal intent will do so with ease.

Here is an example that will crush you all and your silly remarks about "low probability" events. Why do you think Courthouses, all federal buildings, and airplanes do NOT allow you to carry firearms onto the premises? That ban is regardless of criminal record or concealed arms permit. Now surely "law abiding" citizens can be trusted to behave themselves and counter any possible threat from evildoers.

Authorities decided that the risk of catastrophe by a suicidal madman, criminal with a grudge, some fraudster or some other "evildoer" is too great. People in government decided they don't want to experience that risk but they subject private citizens to it.

Everyday people have to live with the risk of a madman opening fire on them, crimes of passion, gang activity, etc.

The courthouse illustrates THE REAL BELIEF OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AS TO LEVEL OF RESPONSIBILITY OF THE AVERAGE CITIZEN. (EVEN THE ONE WITH THE CONCEALED FIREARMS PERMIT AND NO CRIMINAL RECORD)
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"Crush?" LOL.

Tell me about this availability of guns. How are they (illegal gun owners) obtaining them in the illegal manner in which they do?
 
Quote from Z.O.G.:

I wonder if anybody here even knows what tiny ethnic group of people is responsible for all Federal gun control legislation in the United States? I bet nobody in this thread has a clue(well, maybe Mag Light). :D

I'll post the information in a new thread later. It's quite an eye opener, to say the least. :eek:
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Let me guess? Jews, huh? It's obvious that's what you're going to say given your name tag which means "zionist occupational government."
 
Quote from IShopAtPublix:


What about crimes of passion? A man comes home and sees his wife in the arms of another man and kills them both with a gun.

Don't forget school shootings, which are, in essence, a uniquely American experience.
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I have no problem with the former happening. Plead temporary insanity, get off with 5 years out in 3 after parole, justice served IMO.

Check out Finland for school shootings.
 
Btw, some people need to realize that the days of Ozzie&Harriet are gone forever.

US society changed in many ways, not the last of which is the proportion of people being raised in single homes, out of wedlock kids, and families needing 2 parents to work to stay afloat.
 
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