Israel

Quote from trefoil:

Mistreated is putting it rather mildly. The history of Jews in Europe includes forced conversions, pogroms, expulsions, and that bit of unpleasantness in Germany during WWII.
I doubt you care, but for the one or two actual thinking people who might stray into this ring of the inferno, here we go: To understand the relationship, you're going to need to be able to do a bit of complex thinking.
The first thing you have to do is come up with an explanation for Operation Nickel Grass, Nixon's resupply effort of Israel in the 1973 war. The mystery here is why Nixon overrode everyone and put together a massive resupply of Israel during this war, going to the extent of delivering American jet fighters that were then stripped of their insignia, replaced with Israeli insignia, and sent into combat within hours of their arrival.
Remember, prior to this the relationship had been somewhat less than the total embrace it is now. Since that operation and the ensuing Arab oil embargo, it has been much closer.
The reason is: Israel was going to go nuclear. The IDF was strained to an extent that surprised the US and others by the two-front attack. Europe refused to help at all, even going to the length of refusing to allow US jets to overfly their territory during the resupply effort (a bit more "mistreatment", I suppose). So Israel was confronted with the reality that it only had one country it could rely on for a resupply effort, and that resupply effort would be crucial: the USSR was shipping stuff to Egypt and Syria at a furious rate.
So, at this point we have a classic Cold War proxy war, with the added twist that the US ally in this proxy was a nuclear state, and was preparing to use them. Then throw in the further twist of our dependence on the Arabs for oil supplies, and you've got one extremely complex brew.
Nixon's overriding of everyone to get those supplies over can therefore be explained by two things: the Cold War, and Israel's nuclear capacity. Even though we weren't in the total embrace with them then that we are now, we were still seen as their closest ally, and if Israel were to use those nukes it would make having any sort of friendly relations with any Arab state an impossibility for the US. The only way to keep the nuclear option off the table was to resupply Israel, and do so in such a way as to let them know they had a friend who would back them unconditionally in a time of need.
So, paradoxically, our close relationship with Israel keeps them from feeling so desperate that they would feel it necessary to nuke one of their adversaries, which then allows us to continue to have decent relations with their Arab neighbors, and which therefore keeps our oil flowing, temporary embargoes notwithstanding.
The world is a complex place, and since the US needs all these resources to keep going because of our huge economy, we necessarily wind up doing all kinds of things that look crazy, but actually aren't once you look at them more closely.
China is trying not to get itself all entangled in the world as a result of its own need for these same resources, but they will find that it's impossible. Empire, and the complexities of managing the client states within the empire, come with being number one and number two in the world.
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Excellent post. Stellar.
 
Quote from wildchild:

First and foremost, the question clearly asked what benefit does this have for the USA? Exactly what does your argument have to do with the USA taxpayer?

Second of all, how does ancestral homeland give stakes in the here and now? We would have a shitload of borders to redraw.

Third of all, if you moved out, you dont get to move back and displace those who replaced you simply because you were mistreated in your new home.
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There is nothing worse than a brainwashed individual, such as the one you replied to, basing his stands on erroneous historical data.

Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[90][91] together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times", albeit religiously first Christianized then largely Islamized, and all eventually culturally Arabized.[90] Referring to those of the Muslim faith more specifically, it reaffirmed that Palestinian "Muslim Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel, Sinai and part of Jordan." Geneticist Michael Hammer praised "the study for 'focusing in detail on the Jewish and Palestinian populations.'"[90]
 
Why are we beating around the bushes Wild? Let us be honest with ourselves, the ONLY reason whites support zionists is due to the fact that they both look alike. flip it anyway you want, the zionists' main support is in the west and our support is in the east and Latin America.

Even if whities found out that we are the REAL inhebitant of the land and that we are the decedents of Jews and Christians, they would still take the zionist side because the zionist state is mostly made out of blondies and rusties. The other reason is that the whities see the zionists the same exact way they see the white butchers who colonized the Americas and exerted the same heinous acts against the inhabitants of that land.
 
Quote from wildchild:

Can anybody spell it out and explain what interest the United States has in this whole dispute?



I asked this question in another thread. It was ignored. Maybe it needs a thread of its own. Okay all you hawks for Israel. Whats the answer? We know you are quite happy using F-16s and Apaches made and supplied by the good old USA but what return does the USA get?
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Just a few more points in addition to trefoil's excellent post:

1. The US has all its military equipment battle tested by Israel. The exchange of intelligence info is also extremely important for both sides
2. The US provides Israel with roughly $2.5 - 3 billion in aid. Meanwhile Israel's military budget is $16 billion and the lion's share of it is spent in the US...which would not necessarily be the case without the US support
3. The US undertook to provide financial aid to both Israel and Egypt as part of the Camp David peace accords. It's merely keeping its obligations
4. It's smart to be associated with the regional superpower of the most explosive and probably vitally economically important region on the planet
5. The US by providing aid to Israel buys a 'seat' at Israel's decision making table. In essence it's sort of a 'bribe' (I don't use it in negative sense, you can call it 'fee' if you will) and as is often the case with bribery both parties are happy. Israel does not take orders from Washington but it does listen and does pay attention.
6. While the cold war is over, other wars (economic etc) are just heating up. Israel is a strategically located military and nuclear superpower, it's not a good idea to have Israel end up in cahoots with American 'adversaries' like China or Russia
7. Last but not the least, the US population supports Israel, it's the right and moral thing to do.
 
Quote from sameeh55:

Why are we beating around the bushes Wild? Let us be honest with ourselves, the ONLY reason whites support zionists is due to the fact that they both look alike. flip it anyway you want, the zionists' main support is in the west and our support is in the east and Latin America.

Even if whities found out that we are the REAL inhebitant of the land and that we are the decedents of Jews and Christians, they would still take the zionist side because the zionist state is mostly made out of blondies and rusties. The other reason is that the whities see the zionists the same exact way they see the white butchers who colonized the Americas and exerted the same heinous acts against the inhabitants of that land.
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Your racism is exceed only by your profound ignorance.

African jews from Ethiopia, Somalia, Zimbabwe, Cameroon, Mali, Ghana, Kenya, Nigeria and Uganda have all been welcomed into Israel with full rights and lots of assistance.

The seething hatred you exhibit isn't a product of jews, Israelis or zionism. It is a self-loathing whos source is the internal recognition of your own failure as a human being. There are exceptions but arabs largely live in squalor adheering to a brutal cult they claim is a religion. That cult has remained static for over 1200 years holding the arabs back while the rest of the world advanced.

Sucks to be you sameeh55.

I think if you folks started with a little hygiene that other elements of civilization might follow.

To be honest sammy, I make friends with black people no problem but wouldn't piss on an arab if he were on fire.
 
Quote from sameeh55:

Why are we beating around the bushes Wild?
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Exactly what bush am I beating around? I asked a very simple direct to the point question.
 
The USA is a Christian country and I am delighted that Americans are supporting what the Bible calls the land of God's chosen people.

Iran threatens my people so I tell the USA to send troops there and finish it off by 2012. Patriotic Americans would die for Israel, and this is the correct position.

Unpatriotic Americans who hate Israel are either muzzies or muzzie lovers and should be shipped off to Afghanistan for target practice. There is no place for Israel-haters in the USA.

America is Israel-loving and will always be. If muzzie lovers do not like this, they should go back to their muzzie lands to fight thei terrorist Jihads.

Iran has WMDs. The USA must attack NOW!!

And when the UN vote on "Palestine" comes, we tell the USA to veto such stupidity.

God bless Israel and all patriotic Americans.
 
Quote from jakejones:

The USA is a Christian country and I am delighted that Americans are supporting what the Bible calls the land of God's chosen people.
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So jews are God's chosen people and everybody else doesn't count. They make such bizarre statements like this then they wonder why there are a lot of people who dont like them.

The USA does have a First Amendment to its Constitution. You ought to read it sometime.
 
Quote from wildchild:

That may explain why a politician supports Israel, but why is it in the interest of the USA to support Israel?

I am looking for someone to express why American tax dollars are being used to support Israel. How does this relationship help the average American whose tax dollars are being used to support to Israel?
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Our support of Israel doesn't help the average American, of course. But that doesn't matter. Politicians decide how our tax dollars are spent, and it is personally profitable for politicians to spend the dollars on Israel. Suppose you are Joe Sleeze, professional congressman. There is one thing you are more certain of than the sun rising tomorrow: Even if you don't have a single Jew in your district, if you support Israel AIPAC will make sure that Zionists pour money into your campaign, but if you don't, AIPAC will make sure that Zionists pour money into the campaign of your opponent. Every year a large percentage of our congressmen pay homage to Zionism at the annual AIPAC conference. They know which side their bread is buttered on.

It is also the case that the Zionists have convinced many nutty Christians like John Hagee that support of Israel is necessary for their salvation. All the while the private views of many Israelis on Christianity is unprintable.
 
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