Israel owns the US
- Thread starter oktiri
- Start date
There's a fair bit of evidence that the US and Israel were arming and financing elements of Fatah
You bet they are, why would not they. Since when is it illegal or immoral? Oh and democracies don't fire rockets at their neighbors. Please mention this to Hamas when you have a chance.
Bottom line, Israel was preparing for this war for the past 6 months, according to leaked Israeli reports.
you bet they were. They are always preparing, they are surrounded by 350 million blood thirsty savages.
an Abbas adviser contacted Israeli officials and indicated that they will be ready to fill the vacuum after Hamas' loss.
Hey, when in <strike>Rome</strike> Gaza do as the Hamas do.
Add to it the siege that pushed the population to the brink of starvation,
I watch TV and don's see starving Gazans on the streets, women are actually fat, lots of audis, mercedeses, all-wheel drive cars.
So much for the so called democracy.
Hmm, with democracy and elections come responsibility for the choices you make. Didnot they teach you nothing in your madrassa, sameeh?
Considering that the brutal military takeover of Gaza by Hamas, in which Hamas murdered many of its supposed countrymen, made global headline news in summer 2007, I assume that your absurd lie means that you're a suicide bomber in training?
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/templateC05.php?CID=2628
Too tempting to comment this:
Financing of Fatah:
Yes, definitely. Why wouldn't US/Israel support Fatah instead of Hamas? But democracies of course fire rockets. Israel bombs, and the US also fire rockets. In that respect, there's no difference.
Israels preparation:
Ever since their Lebanon venture, I'm sure Israel have laid new plans for Gaza. We'll see what comes of it.
Be-sieged Gaza:
Well, I don't know what you watch on TV but you don't really seem like a knowledgable and trustworthy source when it comes to the humanitarian crisis in Gaza right now. You are of course aware of the fact that Israel are denying international reporters entrance to the area, and that hospitals are short of equipment and medical personell to treat the many thousand civilians that are hurt? So, any Audi you're watching now is probably from another day and age.
Democracy and responsibility:
So, because the US elected W twice they would be fair game for anything? Israelis who's had both thieves and murderers hold their highest positions are therefore fair game for Hamas' rockets? No, it's not like that and I'm sure you'll agree.
4X, if it seems like some of us are stating the case pretty forcefully, it's only in an effort to counter the insane statements that emerge from the terrorist apologists. Witness the post just above, where Griginho or whatever his name is tries to tell me that Hamas did not stage a military coup in Gaza in 2007.
What are we supposed to do when faced with this stuff? Hamas has as its stated goal the destruction of Israel and the murder of every Israeli man, woman and child. That's not a guess, that's what they say they want to do. That's what all fanatical Islamists want to do, and they have no problem saying so. What did Ahmadinejad call Israel? A 'rotting corpse', was it? There was a cease fire, and then Hamas started lobbing rockets into Israel, in a clear play on the upcoming inauguration. Even the Palestinian spokeswoman Hanan Ashrawi admits it, but asks us to move beyond it and look at the 'bigger picture'.
I am disgusted and saddened by the loss of life. Yes, I wish the Israelis had not killed 100 for every one they lost. I wish they had held it down to a lower number. But what would you do if you were living next to a bunch of people who had sworn to murder you and then started shelling yoru people? You'd hit them hard.
Place the blame at the feet of Hamas and move on.
Although I agree with every single comment about Hamas you made, I also think it's obvious to anyone observing the situation from a distance that Israel carries their fair share of blame for why there is no peace. Settlements, no retreat to the old borders, the apartheid-like rule - it's not good.
I think the fact that so many normal (not crazy, fanatical) palestinians supported Hamas is that they really see no other option. They're desperate. Go back to the 90's, the Oslo peace accord, the slow progress being made. Think about the far-right Israelis that wanted to derail the whole process - who would they rather have as their adversary? Fatah or Hamas? The latter, of course.
On both sides there are people that for personal gain (or because they're just insane) want hard-liners to be in charge - and in a twisted logic they want hard-liners as their opposition as well. Which is why US/Israel working to throw off the democratically elected Hamas is moderate, and the right thing to do. Conclusion: Democracy is only acceptable when you agree with the result - democracy for the sake of democracy itself is not enough.
I think the fact that so many normal (not crazy, fanatical) palestinians supported Hamas is that they really see no other option. They're desperate. Go back to the 90's, the Oslo peace accord, the slow progress being made. Think about the far-right Israelis that wanted to derail the whole process - who would they rather have as their adversary? Fatah or Hamas? The latter, of course.
On both sides there are people that for personal gain (or because they're just insane) want hard-liners to be in charge - and in a twisted logic they want hard-liners as their opposition as well. Which is why US/Israel working to throw off the democratically elected Hamas is moderate, and the right thing to do. Conclusion: Democracy is only acceptable when you agree with the result - democracy for the sake of democracy itself is not enough.
First, Hamas took power at the point of a gun in Gaza in 2007. Let's not pretend that whole thing didn't happen.
Secondly, I don't believe for a second that the majority of Palestinians want Hamas running the show. The majority of Palestinians know what you just said you agree with - that Hamas is not a Palestinian Nationlist party, it's a radical Islamist party whose mission is the murder of all Jews and the establishment of a pan-Arab Islamic state governed according to Sharia law. Surely you don't think that you know this (as you just confirmed, and why wouldn't you, it's what they say they are) but the Palestinians themselves don't?
What I believe is that many are scared shitless of Hamas because they know that if they are heard to be speaking against them, they or their families will suffer.
When 9/11 happened, I waited for a massive, organized protest by mainstream Muslims against the attacks. I am still waiting.
The Palestinians who want peace (these moderates of whom you speak) need to step up and take control of their own country, and make continuous and unequivocal denunciations of Hamas. Clearly some are trying since they kill each other quite a bit, something the Israelis don't seem to do that often.
Israel is making a huge mistake. Only 400 or so dead in such a target rich environment? WTF!
They need to start laying waste to the entire Gaza strip. Casualties should be in the tens of thousands. Only then will the Palestinian people rise up against their so called government. The price for having terrorists run your country must be high, very high.
They need to start laying waste to the entire Gaza strip. Casualties should be in the tens of thousands. Only then will the Palestinian people rise up against their so called government. The price for having terrorists run your country must be high, very high.