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Israel "afraid" of a Free IRAQ?
- Thread starter nitro
- Start date
BTW, the Israelis are NOT afraid of a free Iraq. If Israel's neighbors were to become free and rational people, instead of self-exploding savages, the benefits to Israel would be imeasurable.
Debka (Mossad leak site) pointed out something very interesting when Saddam's sons were killed. In pictures appearing in the media of the despots' hideout, empty bottles of Israeli brand Macabbe beer could be seen lying around.
Because the manufactured goods of Arab nations are of such miserable quality, Iraq is now a booming market for all sorts of Israeli manufactured goods. This translates into badly needed jobs and foreign revenue for the Israeli economy.
Debka (Mossad leak site) pointed out something very interesting when Saddam's sons were killed. In pictures appearing in the media of the despots' hideout, empty bottles of Israeli brand Macabbe beer could be seen lying around.
Because the manufactured goods of Arab nations are of such miserable quality, Iraq is now a booming market for all sorts of Israeli manufactured goods. This translates into badly needed jobs and foreign revenue for the Israeli economy.
I agree with what Nitro proposes with one condition. If the US wildly succeeds, beyond any of our expectations, and is able to bring peace to the entire region- ie eliminate all of Israel's enemies, than Israel could benefit as others above stated.
However the historic reality is not that the US has any love or loyalty towards Jews or Zionism. Rather, as Nitro hints, US support and massive financial aid is a product of cold war proxy dynamics and oil politics- like our historic alliance with Saudi Arabia.
Likely, if the US has a puppet or colonial Iraq, it will decrease our need for Israel as a military proxy. However a truly democratic Iraq, which would likely elect a shiite muslim government, would probably be no friend of the US or Israel and thus little would change in Israel's role for the US.
So.... I would imagine, given the embroiled nightmare that Iraq has become, that Israel is not worried
However the historic reality is not that the US has any love or loyalty towards Jews or Zionism. Rather, as Nitro hints, US support and massive financial aid is a product of cold war proxy dynamics and oil politics- like our historic alliance with Saudi Arabia.
Likely, if the US has a puppet or colonial Iraq, it will decrease our need for Israel as a military proxy. However a truly democratic Iraq, which would likely elect a shiite muslim government, would probably be no friend of the US or Israel and thus little would change in Israel's role for the US.
So.... I would imagine, given the embroiled nightmare that Iraq has become, that Israel is not worried
I can not speak for conservatives in the South but I think the thing about conservatives and prejudice in the North is way off basel
Having grown up a tennis player and going to lots of different clubs, let me just say that in Westchester and Greenwich there were some good clubs that were only Jewish as well. At the time in the 70s the point was to win the interclub match, no one cared what religion they were. It seemed to me the middle class got all worked up about race.
In Greenwich a black family moved in next to us and not once ever did I hear anyone make a comment. The guy was a lawyer at a big firm and that was good enough. Yeah there were some exclusive clubs and some mixed but no one got all worked up about it. I remember the round hill country club did not want us to make an application cause we were Irish. Then my mom dropped a name and the manager's face totally changed. It was all about money and keeping the riff raff out.
So I do not think it is fair to say conservatives are anti anything but taxes and big government.
Two - I think that the quietness in liberal hollywood is very strange. Which I think is actually support for Bush's policy in Iraq. It just they really cant support him vocally for numerous reasons.
Having grown up a tennis player and going to lots of different clubs, let me just say that in Westchester and Greenwich there were some good clubs that were only Jewish as well. At the time in the 70s the point was to win the interclub match, no one cared what religion they were. It seemed to me the middle class got all worked up about race.
In Greenwich a black family moved in next to us and not once ever did I hear anyone make a comment. The guy was a lawyer at a big firm and that was good enough. Yeah there were some exclusive clubs and some mixed but no one got all worked up about it. I remember the round hill country club did not want us to make an application cause we were Irish. Then my mom dropped a name and the manager's face totally changed. It was all about money and keeping the riff raff out.
So I do not think it is fair to say conservatives are anti anything but taxes and big government.
Two - I think that the quietness in liberal hollywood is very strange. Which I think is actually support for Bush's policy in Iraq. It just they really cant support him vocally for numerous reasons.
Quote from ARogueTrader:
Funny how the tape doesn't lie, and how the Christian right would not allow Jews in their country clubs.
They may have had an intellectual taste for Israel, but a distaste for Jews in the flesh.
Quote from Pabst:
No disagreement. But actions do speak louder than words. Afterall i've been called a goy meshungina more often than a mentcsh.
This is a country that's diverse but not real fraternal.
Well...It doesn't seem that Jews have been marginalized. Some of the highest and critical ranking positions within our gov't are held by them. It will be naive to think that they have no influence at least partially in favor of Israel. Israel doesn't have much to fear.
1). Richard Perle***----One of Bush's foreign policy advisors, he is the chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board. A very likely Israeli government agent, Perle was expelled from Senator Henry Jackson's office in the 1970's after the National Security Agency (NSA) caught him passing Highly-Classified (National Security) documents to the Israeli Embassy. He later worked for the Israeli weapons firm, Soltam.
2). Paul Wolfowitz----Deputy Defense Secretary, and member of Perle's Defense Policy Board, in the Pentagon. Wolfowitz is a close associate of Perle, and reportedly has close ties to the Israeli military. His sister lives in Israel. Wolfowitz is the number two leader within the administration behind this Iraq war mongering.
3). Douglas Feith----Under Secretary of Defense and Policy Advisor at the Pentagon. He is a close associate of Perle and served as his Special Counsel. Like Perle and the others, Feith is a pro-Israel extremist, who has advocated anti-Arab policies in the past. He is closely associated with the extremist group, the Zionist Organization of America, which even attacks Jews that don't agree with its extremist views. Feith frequently speaks at ZOA conferences. Feith runs a small law firm, Feith and Zell, which only has one International office, in Israel. The majority of their legal work is representing Israeli interests. His firm's own website stated, prior to his appointment, that Feith "represents Israeli Armaments Manufacturer." Feith basically represents the Israeli War Machine. Feith, like Perle and Wolfowitz, are campaigning hard for this Israeli proxy war against Iraq.
4). Edward Luttwak----Member of the National Security Study Group of the Department of Defence at the Pentagon. Luttwak is reportedly an Israeli citizen and has taught in Israel. He frequently writes for Israeli and pro-Israeli newspapers and journals. Luttwak is an Israeli extremist whose main theme in many of his articles is the necessity of the U.S. waging war against Iraq.
5). Henry Kissinger-----One of many Pentagon Advisors, Kissinger sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle. For detailed information about Kissinger's evil past, read Seymour Hersch's book (Price of Power: Kissinger in the Nixon White House). Kissinger had a part in the Watergate crimes, Southeast Asia mass murders, Chile dictatorship, and more recently served as Serbian Dictator Slobodan Milosevic's Advisor. He consistently advocates going to war against Iraq. Kissinger is the Ariel Sharon of the U.S.
6). Dov Zakheim----Under Secretary of Defense, Comptroller, and Chief Financial Officer (CFO) for the Department of Defense. He is an ordained rabbi and reportedly holds Israeli citizenship. Zakheim attended Jew's College in London and became an ordained Orthodox Jewish Rabbi in 1973. He was adjunct professor at New York's Jewish Yeshiva University. Zakheim is close to the Israeli lobby.
7). Kenneth Adelman-----One of many Pentagon Advisors, Adelman also sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle, and is another extremist pro-Israel advisor, who supports going to war against Iraq. Adelman frequently is a guest on Fox News, and often expresses extremist and often ridiculus anti-Arab and anti-Muslim views. Through his hatred or stupidity, he actually called Arabs "anti-Semitic" on Fox News (11/28/2001), when he could have looked it up in the dictionary to find out that Arabs bydefinition are Semites.
8). I. Lewis Libby -----Vice President Dick Cheney's Chief of Staff. The chief pro-Israel Jewish advisor to Cheney, it helps explains why Cheney is so gun-ho to invade Iraq. Libby is longtime associate of Wolfowitz. Libby was also a lawyer for convicted felon and Israeli spy Mark Rich, whom Clinton pardoned, in his last days as president.
9). Robert Satloff----U.S. National Security Council Advisor, Satloff was the executive director of the Israeli lobby's "think tank," Washington Institute for Near East Policy. Many of the Israeli lobby's "experts" come from this front group, like Martin Indyk.
10). Elliott Abrams-----National Security Council Advisor. He previously worked at Washington-based "Think Tank" Ethics and Public Policy Center. During the Reagan Adminstration, Abrams was the Assistant Secretary of State, handling, for the most part, Latin American affairs. He played an important role in the Iran-Contra Scandal, which involved illegally selling U.S. weapons to Iran to fight Iraq, and illegally funding the contra rebels fighting to overthrow Nicaragua's Sandinista government. He also actively deceived three congressional committees about his involvement and thereby faced felony charges based on his testimony. Abrams pled guilty in 1991 to two misdemeanors and was sentenced to a year's probation and 100 hours of community service. A year later, former President Bush (Senior) granted Abrams a full pardon. He was one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the Reagan Administration's State Department.
cont'd next including note on Perle***
11). Marc Grossman-----Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs. He was Director General of the Foreign Service and Director of Human Resources at the Department of State. Grossman is one of many of the pro-Israel Jewish officials from the Clinton Administration that Bush has promoted to higher posts.
12). Richard Haass-----Director of Policy Planning at the State Department and Ambassador at large. He is also Director of National Security Programs and Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). He was one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the first Bush (Sr) Administration who sat on the National Security Council, and who consistently advocates going to war against Iraq. Haass is also a member of the Defense Department's National Security Study Group, at the Pentagon.
13). Robert Zoellick-----U.S. Trade Representative, a cabinet-level position. He is also one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the Bush (Jr) Administration who advocated invading Iraq and occupying a portion of the country in order to set up setting up a Vichy-style puppet government. He consistently advocates going to war against Iraq.
14). Ari Fleischer----Official White House Spokesman for the Bush (Jr) Administration. Prominent in the Jewish community, some reports state that he holds Israeli citizenship. Fleischer is closely connected to the extremist Jewish group called the Chabad Lubavitch Hasidics, who follow the Kabala, and hold very extremist and insulting views of non-Jews. Fleischer was the co-president of Chabad's Capitol Jewish Forum. He received the Young Leadership Award from the American Friends of Lubavitch in October, 2001.
15). James Schlesinger-----One of many Pentagon Advisors, Schlesinger also sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle and is another extremist pro-Israel advisor, who supports going to war against Iraq. Schlesinger is also a commissioner of the Defense Department's National Security Study Group, at the Pentagon.
16). Mel Sembler-----President of the Export-Import Bank of the United States. A Prominent Jewish Republican and Former National Finance Chairman of the Republican National Committee. The Export-Import Bank facilitates trade relationships between U.S. businesses and foreign countries, specifically those with financial problems.
17). Michael Chertoff ----Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division, at the Justice Department.
18). Joshua Bolten----Bush's Chief Policy Director, banker and former legislative aide. Prominent in the Jewish community.
19). Steve Goldsmith----Senior Advisor to the President, and Bush's Jewish domestic policy advisor. He also serves as liaison in the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives (White House OFBCI) within the Executive Office of the President. He was the former mayor of Indianapolis. He is also friends with Israeli Jerusalem Mayor Ehud Olmert and often visits Israel to coach mayors on privatization initiatives.
20). Adam Goldman-----White House's Special Liaison to the Jewish Community.
21). Joseph Gildenhorn-----Bush Campaign's Special Liaison to the Jewish Community. He was the DC finance chairman for the Bush campaign, as well as campaign coordinator, and former ambassador to Switzerland.
22). Christopher Gersten-----Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families at HHS. Gersten was the former Executive Director of the Republican Jewish Coalition, Husband of Labor Secretary, Linda Chavez, and reportedly very pro-Israel. Their children are being raised Jewish.
23). Mark Weinberger-----Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Tax Policy.
24). Samuel Bodman-----Deputy Secretary of Commerce. He was the Chairman and CEO of Cabot Corporation in Boston, Massachusetts.
25). Bonnie Cohen-----Under Secretary of State for Management.
26). Ruth Davis-----Director of Foreign Service Institute, who reports to the Office of Under Secretary for Management. This Office is responsible for training all Department of State staff (including ambassadors).
27). Lincoln Bloomfield-----Assistant Secretary of State for Political Military Affairs.
28). Jay Lefkowitz-----General Counsel of the Office of Budget and Management.
29). David Frum-----White House speechwriter.
30). Ken Melman-----White House Political Director.
*** Note; Perle had to step down due scandal unfolding regarding his involvement with GlobalCrossing and possible illegal arms/technology (nuclear related) sales to North Korea.
Fleicher also resigned earlier this year.
12). Richard Haass-----Director of Policy Planning at the State Department and Ambassador at large. He is also Director of National Security Programs and Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). He was one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the first Bush (Sr) Administration who sat on the National Security Council, and who consistently advocates going to war against Iraq. Haass is also a member of the Defense Department's National Security Study Group, at the Pentagon.
13). Robert Zoellick-----U.S. Trade Representative, a cabinet-level position. He is also one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the Bush (Jr) Administration who advocated invading Iraq and occupying a portion of the country in order to set up setting up a Vichy-style puppet government. He consistently advocates going to war against Iraq.
14). Ari Fleischer----Official White House Spokesman for the Bush (Jr) Administration. Prominent in the Jewish community, some reports state that he holds Israeli citizenship. Fleischer is closely connected to the extremist Jewish group called the Chabad Lubavitch Hasidics, who follow the Kabala, and hold very extremist and insulting views of non-Jews. Fleischer was the co-president of Chabad's Capitol Jewish Forum. He received the Young Leadership Award from the American Friends of Lubavitch in October, 2001.
15). James Schlesinger-----One of many Pentagon Advisors, Schlesinger also sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle and is another extremist pro-Israel advisor, who supports going to war against Iraq. Schlesinger is also a commissioner of the Defense Department's National Security Study Group, at the Pentagon.
16). Mel Sembler-----President of the Export-Import Bank of the United States. A Prominent Jewish Republican and Former National Finance Chairman of the Republican National Committee. The Export-Import Bank facilitates trade relationships between U.S. businesses and foreign countries, specifically those with financial problems.
17). Michael Chertoff ----Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division, at the Justice Department.
18). Joshua Bolten----Bush's Chief Policy Director, banker and former legislative aide. Prominent in the Jewish community.
19). Steve Goldsmith----Senior Advisor to the President, and Bush's Jewish domestic policy advisor. He also serves as liaison in the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives (White House OFBCI) within the Executive Office of the President. He was the former mayor of Indianapolis. He is also friends with Israeli Jerusalem Mayor Ehud Olmert and often visits Israel to coach mayors on privatization initiatives.
20). Adam Goldman-----White House's Special Liaison to the Jewish Community.
21). Joseph Gildenhorn-----Bush Campaign's Special Liaison to the Jewish Community. He was the DC finance chairman for the Bush campaign, as well as campaign coordinator, and former ambassador to Switzerland.
22). Christopher Gersten-----Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families at HHS. Gersten was the former Executive Director of the Republican Jewish Coalition, Husband of Labor Secretary, Linda Chavez, and reportedly very pro-Israel. Their children are being raised Jewish.
23). Mark Weinberger-----Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Tax Policy.
24). Samuel Bodman-----Deputy Secretary of Commerce. He was the Chairman and CEO of Cabot Corporation in Boston, Massachusetts.
25). Bonnie Cohen-----Under Secretary of State for Management.
26). Ruth Davis-----Director of Foreign Service Institute, who reports to the Office of Under Secretary for Management. This Office is responsible for training all Department of State staff (including ambassadors).
27). Lincoln Bloomfield-----Assistant Secretary of State for Political Military Affairs.
28). Jay Lefkowitz-----General Counsel of the Office of Budget and Management.
29). David Frum-----White House speechwriter.
30). Ken Melman-----White House Political Director.
*** Note; Perle had to step down due scandal unfolding regarding his involvement with GlobalCrossing and possible illegal arms/technology (nuclear related) sales to North Korea.
Fleicher also resigned earlier this year.
A free Iraq would seem to be high on Israel's wish list. One of the reasons we're there is to pressure Syria, which also is to Israel's benefit. In fact, some have criticized the war as being largely for Israel's benefit.