Israel "afraid" of a Free IRAQ?

[nitro]

I am just throwing this idea out there because I would like to learn if this is a possibility or not - please no rants.

IMHO, a free and stable democratic IRAQ would really put a dent in the US/Israel relations. The reason I belive is because the US needs a stable representative in the area. However, as most of the middle east has problems with Israel, it seems like the US needs to hedge itself and create another egg in the basket for itself.

I have noticed that most Jews (I distinguish between Jews and Israelis - they are NOT the same thing to me) are against Bush, and perhaps this has more to do with this "threat" than anything else.

What do you think?

nitro

 

[cable]

There's also the paranoid yet possible threat of the rumored Israeli Spy Ring. No idea whether any of the speculation is true or not, but if it IS true, I'm sure George Dubya ain't too pleased. Dubya may not be perfect, but as a leader, he's definitely PRO-America, ANTI-everybody else, which is both good and bad for the Americans, the World, and the Markets. Definitely, Israel is a close ally, but an unstable bunch who lose their tempers as much as the Muslims and have no problem getting themselves into PR disasters machinegunning children and the like.

 

[aphexcoil]

Quote from cable:

Definitely, Israel is a close ally, but an unstable bunch who lose their tempers as much as the Muslims and have no problem getting themselves into PR disasters machinegunning children and the like.

Yeah, but when you have Palestinians coming into your local restaurant and blowing themselves up along with a dozen kids, a dozen mom's and dad's and a sprinkling of other people, who's really in the frame of mind to think about PR?

I'm convinced there is no solution to this problem, unless you're thinking of genocide for one side or another.

 

[dgabriel]

Quote from nitro:

I am just throwing this idea out there because I would like to learn if this is a possibility or not - please no rants.

IMHO, a free and stable democratic IRAQ would really put a dent in the US/Israel relations. The reason I belive is because the US needs a stable representative in the area. However, as most of the middle east has problems with Israel, it seems like the US needs to hedge itself and create another egg in the basket for itself.

I have noticed that most Jews (I distinguish between Jews and Israelis - they are NOT the same thing to me) are against Bush, and perhaps this has more to do with this "threat" than anything else.

What do you think?

nitro

I don't think so at all.

Democratization in the Middle East would confer longterm greater stability and peace prospects to the area and that is a positive to Israel.

I don't know that most Jews oppose Bush, but there is a deep liberal political tradition among many Jews. I think that most American Jews' political choices are determined almost exclusively by the same concerns that drive the choices of non-Jewish Americans: personal liberty, economic opportunity, education, crime, taxes, issues of peace and conflict, etc.

No offense Nitro, but yours is a wacky notion.

 

[Rearden Metal]

I think a strong factor in swaying American Jews to the left is the entire Civil Rights/ Racial integration issue of the 50's and 60's.

Jews are fully aware that if black people get treated badly, mistreatment of Jews is probably not far behind. It was Republicans like Strom Thurmond who wanted the 'seperate but equal' racist, back of the bus policies, and Liberals who opposed these things. It will take a few generations for Jews (and blacks) to forget that...

 

[ARogueTrader]

Quote from Rearden Metal:

I think a strong factor in swaying American Jews to the left is the entire Civil Rights/ Racial integration issue of the 50's and 60's.

Jews are fully aware that if black people get treated badly, mistreatment of Jews is probably not far behind. It was Republicans like Strom Thurmond who wanted the 'separate but equal' racist, back of the bus policies, and Liberals who opposed these things. It will take a few generations for Jews (and blacks) to forget that...

Richard Nixon is on tape talking to Billy Graham about the Jews in a derogatory manner.

The conservative party has never been known as a party of inclusion, as much as they like to tell us that they really are.

Many of the major backers of Republicans, from a financial perspective, belong to country clubs where Jews were not allowed.

There is a long history of bigotry by far right against the Jews.

 

[Pabst]

Quote from dgabriel:



I don't think so at all.

Democratization in the Middle East would confer longterm greater stability and peace prospects to the area and that is a positive to Israel.

I don't know that most Jews oppose Bush, but there is a deep liberal political tradition among many Jews. I think that most American Jews' political choices are determined almost exclusively by the same concerns that drive the choices of non-Jewish Americans: personal liberty, economic opportunity, education, crime, taxes, issues of peace and conflict, etc.

No offense Nitro, but yours is a wacky notion.

Jews traditionally vote Democrat about 20-30% more than Christian whites.

 

[Pabst]

Quote from Rearden Metal:

I think a strong factor in swaying American Jews to the left is the entire Civil Rights/ Racial integration issue of the 50's and 60's.

Jews are fully aware that if black people get treated badly, mistreatment of Jews is probably not far behind. It was Republicans like Strom Thurmond who wanted the 'seperate but equal' racist, back of the bus policies, and Liberals who opposed these things. It will take a few generations for Jews (and blacks) to forget that...

Ironically, blacks and Hispanics display dramatically more anti-Semitsm than Christian Whites.

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4109_12.asp

 

[Pabst]

Quote from ARogueTrader:



Richard Nixon is on tape talking to Billy Graham about the Jews in a derogatory manner.

The conservative party has never been known as a party of inclusion, as much as they like to tell us that they really are.

Many of the major backers of Republicans, from a financial perspective, belong to country clubs where Jews were not allowed.

There is a long history of bigotry by far right against the Jews.

Really not true. The main reason that Republican President's have long protected Isreal (Nixon fervently BTW), is the belief among the Christian Right that Jews are sacred. This of course is not because the Graham's, Falwell's, and Robertson's dig Woody Allen movies, but because Jesus Christ was King of the Jews. A good friend of mine (CBOT trader in fact) went to Jerry Falwell's Liberty Univ., and told me that a strong, safe Isreal was paramount to Falwell's foreign policy wish list.

 

[ARogueTrader]

Quote from Pabst:



Really not true. The main reason that Republican President's have long protected Isreal (Nixon fervently BTW), is the belief among the Christian Right that Jews are sacred. This of course is not because the Graham's, Falwell's, and Robertson's dig Woody Allen movies, but because Jesus Christ was King of the Jews. A good friend of mine (CBOT trader in fact) went to Jerry Falwell's Liberty Univ., and told me that a strong, safe Isreal was paramount to Falwell's foreign policy wish list.

Funny how the tape doesn't lie, and how the Christian right would not allow Jews in their country clubs.

They may have had an intellectual taste for Israel, but a distaste for Jews in the flesh.