Is Trading Just Guessing?

Quote from macattack:

Isn’t the decision to enter a trade nothing more than a guess?

Guess: To predict (a result or an event) without sufficient information.

No matter if you’re using an automated fancy system, 10 monitors, your gut, the moon, technical analysis, fundamental analysis, breakouts, support/resistance, Fibonacci levels,
trendlines, Bollinger bands, oscillators, the moon………….everybody is just guessing aren’t they?

Some genius from MIT can spend 10 years developing some extremely complex system at a cost of a million dollars, & it would still probably do no better than some guy with a high school diploma who Has 20 years of experience & the ability to make calm, logical “guesses”.

It reminds me of sports betting. Even the sportscasters on tv who should know way more than anyone else can’t even predict half the games right each week. You would think they could, but like the markets, there are so many variables you just don’t know.

It seems like the keys in trading have more to do with experience, risk control, bet size, having a strong mind, etc. As far as entering a trade everyone, from the little guy to the
multi-million dollar corporation, seem to have about the same winning %’s when successful……….because for everybody it’s the same……….it’s just a Guess !


Not that simple.

The MIT guy/gal is better than the high school grad. Big differences.

e.g. I noticed that the guy/gal from MIT wipes his/her ass better than the high school grad. i.e. smellless ass.

not sure why. never thought about it. maybe smarter so optimized the method of ass wiping? better ass wiping discipline? willing to go the extra mile in wiping that ass?

It's also more fun to work with the MIT guy/gal.

From employer standpoint, MIT grads are less riskier than the h.s. grad, all other factors being equal.

Trading is gambling.
 
Quote from SteveNYC:

Trading is gambling.

I don't agree with you. We discussed this subject long time ago and I'll just post my answer here in quote tags to prevent duplicate content.

Is trading actually gambling? This is more a philosophical question in my opinion. Trading can be compared to coin flipping. The market can go two ways only, up or down and a coin can land on two sides only, heads or tails. Even though, the outcome has to be predicted and what is prediction if not gambling? So is trading actually gambling?

Professional gamblers follow strategies, systems and have proper money and risk management and they succeed in the long term, just like speculators. Professional gamblers study the game, know the rules and predict the outcome. They take the risk and hope for a gain. Just like traders. Is gambling a financial instrument or is trading a game of luck? Can you prove professional poker players wrong? Can you prove beginner Spot traders wrong?

You can't argue with currency traders that win in the long term just as you can't argue with roulette players that win the long term. Be it trading or gambling, you bet on the outcome. There is absolutely no way you can know what the next card will be and there is absolutely no way you can know how the market will behave in the next move. You may have systems, strategies and methods but in the end, you still bet on the outcome.

I have friends who bet regularly on sports and few of them gamble in a casino once a month, they all have systems they follow regularly. Each time they gamble, one or two win and the rest lose money. I know Spot traders (including myself) who trade every day and they all have systems they follow. Each time the market moves, few of them win, the rest lose money. So is trading actually gambling?

Your charts tell you what has happened in the past, you have no insight in the future. The cards that have been dealt show you the past and you have no insight in the future. In both cases, you study the past and try to predict the future. So you are a gambler, fortune teller and a guesser. If trading is not gambling, why do you set stop-loss levels? Aren't you convinced in your outcome? Do you trade based on your calculations or based on how it feels? Are calculations valid in an unpredictable market? Is sixth sense a valid indicator?

When you open a position on EURUSD, the dealing desk on the other side takes an opposite position and trades against you hoping you will lose, because that's how they make money. When you gamble in a casino, the house is a dealing desk hoping you lose because that's how they make money. As you can see, there are many similarities between trading and gambling but I would like to add just one more thing, which I find essential to the whole debate.

Results of financial markets depend on many factors such as economy, social situation, stability, supply and demand, politics... while with gambling the result depends on only one factor, randomness (or probability or luck if you will). When you gamble in a casino you in no way affect the process of the game, but when you trade your position is a liquidity provider and while that might be just one of the factors affecting the outcome, in essence you do influence the process of the game and contribute to the desirable outcome. That's the biggest and most valid difference between classic gambling and trading.

While trading and gambling might be similar and you could say that trading is gambling, considering the fact that the outcome cannot be predicted, the main difference between the two is that gambling is a game with a random outcome, while trading is taking action in the process of the outcome. That's only my opinion and I might just be wrong completely, so don't take my words for granted.
 
Quote from eurojack:

I don't agree with you. We discussed this subject long time ago and I'll just post my answer here in quote tags to prevent duplicate content.

Okay. No problem. I don't think it matters much who is right.

One definition of gambling could define trading.
 
it is a guessing game.

someone guesses a little better, some worse. most can guess well if they are not in the market.but when they are in the market, their "get richer or fear of losing" make their guess go astray, that is why 90% lose.

since trading is just common sense. something goes up must go down, but something goes down not really go up.

buy low and sell high. sell high and buy low.
 
Quote from Blotto:

So when you tell them that accuracy is possible, [/B]

Unless your definition of accuracy is wildly different than my concept of accuracy.

I'd have to say that's one silliest things I've seen proposed on ET.

I myself must be a heretic and believe set-ups are at best a guess and a required psychological crutch bordering on superstition and OCD at worst.
Of course having that belief individually may be adaptive for you as a trader.
Belief in "control" of future market behavior is very appealing.



Whereas the real control a trader has is in risk mgmt and exits.
 
Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

Unless your definition of accuracy is wildly different than my concept of accuracy.

I'd have to say that's one silliest things I've seen proposed on ET.

I myself must be a heretic and believe set-ups are at best a guess and a required psychological crutch bordering on superstition and OCD at worst.
Of course having that belief individually may be adaptive for you as a trader.
Belief in "control" of future market behavior is very appealing.



Whereas the real control a trader has is in risk mgmt and exits.

Highly robust models are not a crutch. If you've been around probabilities and mathematics for long enough, you'll know there is no crutch when developing trading systems if they're highly robust.

Robust is multithousand percent returns with less than 50% drawdowns.
 
Quote from bwolinsky:

Highly robust models are not a crutch. If you've been around probabilities and mathematics for long enough, you'll know there is no crutch when developing trading systems if they're highly robust.

Robust is multithousand percent returns with less than 50% drawdowns.

Thanks but I'm not talking about paper trading historical data.
 
Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

Thanks but I'm not talking about paper trading historical data.

Anything you can backtest and automate can be immediately applied to the market.

If you don't do this, you are planning to lose, and will be completely clueless about the risks of your trading. Without knowing risks there can be no reward, and many traders that don't devote any time to this will fail automatically.
 
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