Is Trading a Team Sport?

[Concinnity]

I was day trading stocks in the latter 90's, then had a long hiatus dealing more with the medical field, then for the last 14 years in the Futures market largely. Both of these experiences, including via forums, convinced me that the vast majority of Homo sapiens make lousy traders. It can be every bit as much of a biological/psychological/stress hormone challenge as facing down a cougar. I have tons of wilderness experience, where I have had over 10 cougar encounters, one from 19 feet away, so I speak from experience. Only the rare few out on the far right side of the standard distribution curve can handle the challenges of trading year in and out, especially when there is significant Leverage involved.

The trading landscape is also a vast and dangerous "wilderness" with hazards seen, and unseen just around the corner. Just look at the statistics for the Futures market, which attracts a lot of well-capitalized, very intelligent people, who have been quite successful in their other careers. They come up with some very interesting plans. Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face ... over and over again. The vast majority are out of the Futures game after just one year, often much poorer, or even bankrupt. They did not have the full set of rather rare qualities it takes. How many of them would you want on YOUR trading team?

I have some excellent, high quality friends that are great people in many ways, and lots of acquaintances. Despite that, I cant think of one individual out of them that I would want to partner with in this endeavor. Perhaps one will come along some day, but not yet ... so I am for now, the Lone Cougar out hunting for Futures opportunities with full-awareness, knowing my Life depends on strategy, timing, discipline, often lots of waiting, and then suddenly going in for the Kill ...

Is it not possible that at least for some of them they would potentially make a good partner, but it's your inability to clearly and properly explain the task at hand and put them in a position where they at least have the ability to have a higher chance of over coming and getting use to the mental stress?

For example you could screen for the few people that exhibit the traits and hints that they generally respond more favorably in the face of fear, stress and etc. However, if you put them in a position where a cougar is charging them with no protection or understanding and they know they face almost certain death, they still may crack. Where as we take someone who doesn't necessarily have all the qualities or traits near the level of the other individual however we arm them with the necessary knowledge and tools so that they don't need to fear the cougar because they know the battle is already won.

 

[Slow Learning Elf]

Quant trading is definitely a team sport, the times when you can be a standalone guy at an institutional level is mostly over. That’s why if you look at the pod sizes at various multi-managers it’s not uncommon to see teams of 10-20, with people specializing in narrow portions of the process.

 

[Concinnity]

Quant trading is definitely a team sport, the times when you can be a standalone guy at an institutional level is mostly over. That’s why if you look at the pod sizes at various multi-managers it’s not uncommon to see teams of 10-20, with people specializing in narrow portions of the process.

Don't state too many facts or obvious things. You'll ruin the party for all the people who being objective wouldn't be listed as a strength on their resume.

 

[charlotte_daily]

It can be a team endeavor if you see it as all of us against the market, either than that, I don't see it that way.

 

[maxinger]

A. Helping other traders take my money.

B. Helping myself learn to take their money.


Heat travels from a hot body to a cold body.
Similarly
Money travels from a foolish, gullible trader to a hardworking, smart trader.


OK. Now to answer your Question A.
Please note that not all traders are looking for help.

There are many traders
who just went to vent their anger/frustration because they just lost tons of money.

There are also traders who dislike being taught.
They just want to teach/preach because they feel they are the almighty trader or trading God/deity.


There are traders who are seeking help.
So help them.

You can see in this forum not all are seeking help.
DON'T blindly help traders; you might be blacklisted/treated as a troll or troublemaker.


Meanwhile, just earn tons of money from trading shamelessly.

 

[Cam12]

I traded in cognitive dissonance unaware that those who trade the same instrument as I do, at any given time of the day may be trading against me. Therefore by default, that makes them my opponent, and not my friend.

How could I have been so slow to understand in a zero sum game only 1 can win. Sun Tzu helped me to question my values for trading. His book was a slap in the face, that if I continued to show other traders how to take my money, I would not be able to pay my mortgage.

I understand your sentiment but is the opportunity in your market that small, illiquid or niche that a single other person doing the same thing as you would wipe out your edge? Are you the only one making money in your market?

I see trading like hunting. Yes, we can become very proficient doing it alone. But when we work closely with 1 or 2 other well trained, like-minded hunters; we see more tracks, we notice more clues, we find more animals, we can take down bigger game and keep each other on point during intense moments.

 

[murray t turtle]

Is it not possible that at least for some of them they would potentially make a good partner, but it's your inability to clearly and properly explain the task at hand and put them in a position where they at least have the ability to have a higher chance of over coming and getting use to the mental stress?

For example you could screen for the few people that exhibit the traits and hints that they generally respond more favorably in the face of fear, stress and etc. However, if you put them in a position where a cougar is charging them with no protection or understanding and they know they face almost certain death, they still may crack. Where as we take someone who doesn't necessarily have all the qualities or traits near the level of the other individual however we arm them with the necessary knowledge and tools so that they don't need to fear the cougar because they know the battle is already won.

%%
Good shots, so to speak LOL
Question #1, sure.
#2] Exactly+ that mountain lion is not as mean as mid east lion [which weighs a bit moreLOL]
777] In the strictist sense, no man or woman is an island;
+actually to be a good hunter, have to have the desire for it, nor does it require a large team, same locotation ,in the strictist sense.
CAN SLIM[ team] may help, for those that like to read
888]I like the way, in USa, they train a pack of hounds to trail a cougar;
follow the tracks + trend+ pull the trigger.

 

[SimpleMeLike]

I could be wrong. Not sure How trading can be a team sport.

 

[Sprout]

When Dean Lundell transcribed Sun Tzu's teachings through is book called The Art of War for Traders and Investors, I did not at first enjoy the book. This was at the beginning of my trading journey, and I was under the impression that trading is a team sport. Regardless if it was for profit, or just to make a trader feel good about himself, many traders everywhere were helping other traders learn the business.

It was not until my 3rd reading of his book, that it dawned upon me that Sun Tzu's principles started to make sense. Everything in his treatise explains how to WIN against an opponent. I traded in cognitive dissonance unaware that those who trade the same instrument as I do, at any given time of the day may be trading against me. Therefore by default, that makes them my opponent, and not my friend.

How could I have been so slow to understand in a zero sum game only 1 can win. Sun Tzu helped me to question my values for trading. His book was a slap in the face, that if I continued to show other traders how to take my money, I would not be able to pay my mortgage.

I've no idea why it took me so long to understand that the top 1% to 5% consistently profitable traders are not showing other traders how to take their money, which is absolutely absurd.

Questions I asked my reflection in the mirror..

What's the most important value in trading?

A. Helping other traders take my money.

B. Helping myself learn to take their money.

And yet, sometimes I still give in to the temptation to help other traders who are trading the same instrument. I think I need to read the book again.

The way you are framing the questions determines the quality of the answers you receive.

As an example here's a Nat gas, Crude oil, Location Arb/Spread, Time Arb/Spread trader. Talks about shop and/also Mindset.. daily calibration.. lot's of gems

He considers it a team sport and uses the firm's analysis to base his executions

It's all about vibe. With the right group and a common language, the collective can move farther in less time.

I understand your sentiment but is the opportunity in your market that small, illiquid or niche that a single other person doing the same thing as you would wipe out your edge? Are you the only one making money in your market?

I see trading like hunting. Yes, we can become very proficient doing it alone. But when we work closely with 1 or 2 other well trained, like-minded hunters; we see more tracks, we notice more clues, we find more animals, we can take down bigger game and keep each other on point during intense moments.

Very good analogy

 

[murray t turtle]

Actually, Sun Tzu isn't about ME vs YOU and all that other nonsense. It's all about psychological warfare and how best to use herd mentality to your advantage.

%%
Actually I like the name Sun T, bright one ;
+ even better, some childhood patterns.
Bill Gates is planning I think,to release a book with some of his childhood patterns 2025.
Have to respect an elephnant herd or herd of TX longhorns or polar bears.
My banker dad bought some peanuts one time;
we ignored the psycho-babble , noise , + fed a zoo elephant, she loved to take peanuts with her trump LOL.
That elepnant also enjoyed not being part of a stampeding herd. Amazing kid pattern