Is this slippage or what!

martin brown · Aug 20, 2006

Bitstream,

you asked a question, i gave you an answer.

would you like to comment on the chart i posted?

as far as i am aware IB do not have a dealing desk. they offer spot AND futures, take your pick!

not sure why you wish to change the subject to the "bucket shop Vs non-dealing desk brokers" argument.

Bitstream · Aug 20, 2006

Quote from martin brown:

Bitstream,

you asked a question, i gave you an answer.

would you like to comment on the chart i posted?

as far as i am aware IB do not have a dealing desk.

not sure why you wish to change to subject to the "bucket shop Vs non-dealing desk brokers" argument.

that's obvious why..nobody here has access to the real spot mkt, and almost all retail traders transact trough a bucketshop or an ecn model which is closer to a boiler in the way it conducts its operations than to a major bank. i dont know were that chart come from, and neither i do know if futs really traded trough those prices [could be a wrong print] and even of it is real that's not enough of a good reason to risk enormous slippage and unfair fills delivered regularly by spot ecns and dealin' desks alike. also it is just one chart about one news event reaction therefore u cannot conclude it is a comprehensive statistical occurrence.

martin brown · Aug 20, 2006

Quote from Bitstream:

that's obvious why..nobody here has access to the real spot mkt, and almost all retail traders transact trough a bucketshop or an ecn model which is closer to a boiler in the way it conducts its operations than to a major bank. i dont know were that chart come from, and neither i do know if futs really traded trough those prices [could be a wrong print] and even of it is real that's not enough of a good reason to risk enormous slippage and unfair fills delivered regularly by spot ecns and dealin' desks alike. also it is just one chart about one news event reaction therefore u cannot conclude it is a comprehensive statistical occurrence.

Bitstream, i compare the futures & spot prices contantly during news events. without a doubt the bid/offer spreads in futures are much bigger and prices are more erratic during these times compared with spot.

re:the charts. no, that was not a misprint. if you still dispute this then show me a chart that says different. i told you i checked seversal sources, and if you examine the chart there are other examples too (such as the double top).

again, i am trying to show you one reason why futures fx trading is no less risky.

siki13 · Aug 20, 2006

In every forex thread some clown appears and demand to be
explained why are we not trading currency futures or some other
market and completely changing the subject of thread
And here is my theory why losers specially hate forex.
Because its most trending market in the world and that is
the reason why stupid incompetent people with they
average-down strategies ,praying for losing trade to return back
and not to mention high leverage are bankrupt fastest in forex

illiquid · Aug 20, 2006

Quote from cscott:

This sounds right to me. I cannot wait until we either get guaranteed stops or regulation in forex, but I do not expect it to be any time soon.

Last I checked, there is no such thing as a "guaranteed stop" in any regulated market, nor should there be.

The biggest argument against retail fx is that it is a "filtered" market; yes, a specialist at the NYSE is also trading "against" you in a sense, but at least the tape he puts out is universally accessible. In retail FX, to be put on "manual execution" if one is profitable is just intolerable.

Sure, stops get run and horrible fills occur in futures markets as well -- the key is, as a trader in an ecn-model market, I can also take advantage of those mispricings and profit off them -- I doubt your typical fx broker will let any of its customers do the same.

trading_time · Aug 20, 2006

Quote from martin brown:

re:the charts. no, that was not a misprint. if you still dispute this then show me a chart that says different. i told you i checked seversal sources, and if you examine the chart there are other examples too (such as the double top).
[/B]

Iâve seen during news announcements the YM trade opposite from the cash DJIA by 30 ticks, ES to but not as bad.

Is it not fair to say that currency futures follow the spot FX, as index futures follow the cash?

(1) Would explain why YM and GBP, along with many many other futures can spike away from cash. Itâs a separate market basically with a slight peg.

(2) Interbank players may have better insider information leading the spot FX one way, while the smaller futures players take the wrong side causing the market to spike real quick in the other direction.

Maybe im way off, but it sounds good to me. What other reasons could explain this?

By the way im not saying one market is better than the other futures/spot

TradingTimeâ¦

siki13 · Aug 20, 2006

Quote from illiquid:

In retail FX, to be put on "manual execution" if one is profitable is just intolerable.

You dont have to open account with worst possible broker(s).
Just do your homework .

Iconoclast · Aug 20, 2006

Quote from siki13:

In every forex thread some clown appears and demand to be
explained why are we not trading currency futures or some other
market and completely changing the subject of thread
And here is my theory why losers specially hate forex.
Because its most trending market in the world and that is
the reason why stupid incompetent people with they
average-down strategies, praying for losing trade to return back
and not to mention high leverage are bankrupt fastest in forex

Besides the reasons you mentioned, people also lose trading forex because, for example, you go long a stock at $25. It goes to zero you lose a limited amount.

But, currency pairs are open-ended. They're not as likely to stop traveling in one direction, i.e., go to zero, hence losses can be much greater for those trading currency pairs like they trade stocks.

Iconoclast

sim03 · Aug 20, 2006

Quote from Iconoclast:

Besides the reasons you mentioned, people also lose trading forex because, for example, you go long a stock at $25. It goes to zero you lose a limited amount.

But, currency pairs are open-ended. They're not as likely to stop traveling in one direction, i.e., go to zero, hence losses can be much greater for those trading currency pairs like they trade stocks.

Iconoclast

Huh?

Can't tell whether you're being a wise guy or serious. In case you're serious: it's exactly the opposite, of course.

At the risk of stating the obvious: if you go long a stock at $25, no leverage, no stop, and it goes to 0 over time - which has happened countless times, even for US exchange-listed stocks (think 2001) - you've just lost 100% of your investment. If you used, say, 2:1 leverage, a 50% price drop to $12.50 - not uncommon, even intraday, after bad news - again hands you a 100% loss.

If a major currency pair goes to zero, we may safely conclude that hell has officially frozen over. Let's say, you put on a major currency pair position at what will turn out to be the worst possible time - no leverage or stop again - then fall into a mysterious coma. Well, the most your account could lose in 1 day would be under 3%, and in 1 year of doing nothing - 20%, tops. Unlike equities, and like physical commodities, major currency exchange rates can't help but have certain hard limits on the downside.

offshore · Aug 20, 2006

Quote from cscott:

I had a forex IDEALPRO trade at IB that got stopped out 21 pips away from my stop. It wasn't major news time, but the pair did move down quickly a few pips. When I inquired why my stop was executed so far away, IB told me that stops are simulated on forex. They also stated that they sent the simulated stop as a market order when it reached my stop price, and because there was a spike in the price, by the time the order reached them, the price was filled far away from my Stop. I have a fast cable connection. Is this slippage on IB's part? If so, it doesn't seem very reasonable.

Have them make it right or fire them.