Is this George Bush's Democracy in Afghanistan, Death sentence to christian convert??

[JohnnyK]

Quote from spect8or:

And they were freed by Bible Christians, too, let's not forget.

Anyway, there was never any established Christian doctrine that said a Christian must own slaves, was there? But there certainly is a well established, explicity stated, Islamic doctrine that says apostates of Islam must be executed.

Drop the pretenses JohnnyK. You're not just pointing out ironies then and now. Like a good little liberal, you can't bring yourself to criticize only Islam; you just have to include some Christian bashing, too - no matter how hollow it rings.

True. I went to a Civil War reenactment weekend and there were lots of bibles on the north side besides lots of little devotional type books that amount to ammunition. The point being the god of the south and the god of the north were bloody dictators requiring sacrifice, duty, and obedience...not much short of slavery. Poor people. So the slaves, the south christians and the north christians were all slaves. Some slaves wanted to feel better by owning other slaves. Other slaves wanted to feel better by setting slaves free.

Islam is essentially about slavery. Threats to execute apostates is obviously a terror tactic to keep the slaves in line.

As for names, as soon as you identify yourself as something other than what you really are, you become a slave to structure, and a candidate for death. This Afganistan incident illustrates that...but what you don't percieve is how identifying yourself with anything unreal...even with the word christian...is a death sentence.

For me to identify with 'liberal' here in ET would be as insane as someone identifying with 'christian' in a muslim slave state. It's needless, counterproductive, insane and deadly. Did I mention it's insane?

The world challenges us to identify ourselves in 101 different ways. 'Christians' challenge other 'christians' to identify themselves as such. They even have god threatening you if you don't identify yourself as a believer, etc. The challenges are a pretense, and all identities are a pretense except one. So I'll drop the pretense and admit once and for all that I am love.

We have two choices to make at any given time: Will you fear? or, will you love? To be love, or not to be love...that is the question.

JohnnyK

 

[spect8or]

What, did you just come back from some empowerment seminar or something?

Okay bro, fine. That's all very nice. Incredibly naive, in my humble opinion, but if it works for you, great. Leave the tough stuff to the rest of us.

 

[stu]

Quote from spect8or:

And they were freed by Bible Christians, too, let's not forget.

Anyway, there was never any established Christian doctrine that said a Christian must own slaves, was there? But there certainly is a well established, explicity stated, Islamic doctrine that says apostates of Islam must be executed.

Drop the pretenses JohnnyK. You're not just pointing out ironies then and now. Like a good little liberal, you can't bring yourself to criticize only Islam; you just have to include some Christian bashing, too - no matter how hollow it rings.

There certainly was and is a well established, explicity stated, Christian doctrine that says A God fearing Christian must have slaves , the type and kind of which is also explicit.

Leviticus 25:44-45
44. Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
45. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession

 

[spect8or]

Quote from stu:

There certainly was and is a well established, explicity stated, Christian doctrine that says A God fearing Christian must have slaves , the type and kind of which is also explicit.

Leviticus 25:44-45
44. Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
45. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession

You (or whoever you cop/pasted off) deliberately chose the only version (the King James) that even hints that slave ownership is mandatory - the use of term "shalt have". Every other version clearly means that those who want slaves will have to buy them from the surrounding nations, not to make slaves of fellow Israelites. There is nothing at all about being directed to own slaves.

And, naturally, you include no context whatsoever. The chapter was God's specific instructions to Moses. Not to Christians who would come a thousand years later. No Christian could look at that and think Oh, I have to own slaves, my religion demands it.

If you've been deceived, I forgive you. But if you meant to deceive, you are pitiful.

 

[stu]

Quote from spect8or:

You (or whoever you cop/pasted off) deliberately chose the only version (the King James) that even hints that slave ownership is mandatory - the use of term "shalt have". Every other version clearly means that those who want slaves will have to buy them from the surrounding nations, not to make slaves of fellow Israelites. There is nothing at all about being directed to own slaves.

And, naturally, you include no context whatsoever. The chapter was God's specific instructions to Moses. Not to Christians who would come a thousand years later. No Christian could look at that and think Oh, I have to own slaves, my religion demands it.

If you've been deceived, I forgive you. But if you meant to deceive, you are pitiful.

the point is your statement is wrong and incorrect.

A Muslim will make the same kind of pathetic excuse and evasion as you just have, about the parts of the Quran which explicitly state unacceptable behavior.
You should go wash your own hands before you try to wipe mine with your "!forgiveness".

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from spect8or:

You (or whoever you cop/pasted off) deliberately chose the only version (the King James) that even hints that slave ownership is mandatory - the use of term "shalt have". Every other version clearly means that those who want slaves will have to buy them from the surrounding nations, not to make slaves of fellow Israelites. There is nothing at all about being directed to own slaves.

And, naturally, you include no context whatsoever. The chapter was God's specific instructions to Moses. Not to Christians who would come a thousand years later. No Christian could look at that and think Oh, I have to own slaves, my religion demands it.

If you've been deceived, I forgive you. But if you meant to deceive, you are pitiful.

slavery in the bible:

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)