Is there anything other than TA and Fundamentals?

I agree. the reasons are not irrevlant. do it is critical.

when we drive a car,we donot ask why the car does the move, we drive it, we are drivers.

happy trading! sad analyst!

Quote from bighog:

Forget context and all those so called "REASONS" why price did what it did. Do not get wrapped up in different names for the same item: Example: a trendline defined as a demand/supply line. Who is demanding or supplying what? Who cares?

If the trendline or the moving average is going UP, you should be LONG, that is all you need to know.

This mkt axiom still hits home and is more valid than ever. Decide if you are a trader or an analyst, the two DO NOT MIX. A trader needs to be in the here and now, the analyst needs to give you the why, what, when, how and timing.

An analyst will try to make sense of what she is telling you sitting on a bar stool, a trader will just get a room.

Sure there must be a method for the madness, to tack on reasons will only complicate the whole process and cause the "trader" to get lost in a never ending search for reasons.

It was written in the book about bonds where the head trader said to the traders: paraphrased: "look you guys, do not try to intellectualize this, just trade this stuff or you guys will be truck drivers"

Let those words get inside your head...........trade it, find your way and screw the reasons.......... :eek:

A shorter version of the sardine clerk at the CBOT that got hungry and opened a can of sardines to eat. he was a clerk for a sardine trader... http://doublest.blogspot.com/2012/03/trading-sardines-and-eating-sardines.html
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Quote from trader198:

I agree. the reasons are not irrevlant. do it is critical.

when we drive a car,we donot ask why the car does the move, we drive it, we are drivers.

happy trading! sad analyst!
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But, professional drivers must have some (MAGIC) secret that helps them predict where the car will go more accurately than amateur drivers. I read one fellow's post on the urinal and he hinted that there are secret ways of being one with the car but he won't tell me exactly how. So my question is, which is more important - the engine or the steering wheel? When should you accelerate, when should you brake?

There are dozens of ways of trading other than fundamentals and TA or price action. That fact alone should tell you that none of those are critical. Your trading will improve immensely when you put down the hunt for MAGIC - magic guru, magic method, magic secret, magic computer, magic easy system, magic etc etc Sorry to tell you the awful truth - THERE IS NO MAGIC! So don't waste your time hunting for it.

Think on this for a while: suppose you alone secretly found a (magic) method that could predict 98% accurately the price 5 minutes into the future. How efficient would that market be? What would begin to happen? Then play with the numbers a bit and draw some more conclusions. If someone here could insure (MAGIC?) one price 5 minutes out, one could retire with a single trade. How likely is that to occur within your lifetime?
 
Sounds like the kind of edge surf is so fond of speaking of which I would not be frowned upon for saying is well out of the retail traders reach.

Put someone in front of a phone, no charts no news no fundamentals, what can they possible be trading with? But it does sound good to throw around on boards..

That there is something out there that real pro's use that takes out nearly all of the guess work and has real predictive value.
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I've met millionaire traders who use TA as one of their methods. The most successful traders I've met use a combination of statistics, TA and fundamental analysis.
 
Quote from pinkman:

Is there anything other than TA and Fundamentals?

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its called advanced math

np5d90.jpg




Higher education is required. With higher education, a trader will not begin their trading career at home, but work in a trading firm.

TA and price action trading methods are killing small traders because they are lower educated. Geez, small trades did not invent HFT, it was the mathematicians. with the trading formula (TA and price action) becomes outdated (no longer works), sell them to small traders.

TA and price action are responsible of more than 90% small traders losing. But, don't need to believe me and keep reloading your accounts.

Reload!



More than 90% of small traders lose! They just lose!
 
Quote from pinkman:

That's a good question.
Generally I am very skeptical.
For example, I can tell you that there's a fair few people on this site (without naming names) who give the impression of perfect price action entries day-in, day-out, complete with perfect hindsight analysis, who I don't believe for a second.

That being said, the person I quoted didn't make my bullshit-o-meter fly off the scale. I got the impression he was trying to throw people a bone. He didn't do it to scam anyone, because he completely ignored a few private requests to swap payment for more info (not from me)

There was also lots more dialogue that I didn't bother to quote in my opening post that further cements my view that he knew of what he spoke.

Not to mention that i've thought for a number of years now (in fact, after as little as a few months of trying to make it work), that there is something out there that real pro's use that takes out nearly all of the guess work and has real predictive value.

I don't think charts are that useful in real time. Along with, according to 'him', everything else that i'm aware of.
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thank you for your clarification.


We can agree to dissagree. For me, prediction is not possible.

This means I do not build systems to predict.

My alternative is to "always know I know" in the Present.

As bighog says, we all trade in the Present and that is where we make decisions and do timely action.

Action (no guess work is involved) must be taken on every bar at and after the bar "locks-in". The most common action is to "hold".
 
Quote from pinkman:

Every trader i've ever known who can prove (either with lots of realtime calls or statements with other proof) claims to not us TA.
In fact, they claim to not use price charts at all.

They never reveal how they do it, but they do rule out every single approach that I can think of.
(order book, fundamental analysis, DOM/time+sales trading, charts, price action trading, statistics etc etc)

Here are a few snippets from one such trader:

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If the vast majority advocate charts and/or indicators and/or TA and 80-90% lose in the markets, wouldn't this outcome lead a rational person to suspect that something was not right? Aiming to be better than the vast majority at employing an overwhelmingly unsuccessful approach seems to me to be a strange ambition.
Wouldn't it be smarter to feed of the 80-90% rather than compete with them for some dubious outcome.


the past has no relevance as in order to be successful the here and now is what matters, not the past.
No matter what behavior is reflected in the chart, nobody, except someone manipulating that market, can know with any semblance of certainty whether the next tick will be up or down and therefore a trend continuation or the beginning of a reversal.

The surest method will place you next to the herd when they are right and on the other side of their trades when they are wrong! If you ever wonder who is on the other side of your trades when you are wrong I can assure you that it is probably me or someone just like me and when you are right we will have usually entered well before you

But rather that you should be concentrating on using the chartists weaknesses to your advantage. How can you trade against the herd if you are running with them?

the market virtually always telegraphs it's intentions, but this vital information cannot be found with traditional price charts or traditional indicators


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If these comments made by one of the afformentioned traders resonate with anyone, i'd be eternally grateful if someone was to put a little more 'meat on the bone' for me.

What could he possibly be alluding too?
It sounds like he's 'charting something'...but it has nothing to do with price??
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Anything Works! As long as you discovered and incubated and developed an edge on your own. Most people don't have the focus, drive, motivation and self discipline to do the work to become successful at trading. If you worked tirelessly to backtest your edge, you'll become profitable.

oh yeah! your beliefs of what you are seeing in front of you on the chart is fairly important as well.
 
Quote from pinkman:

They never reveal how they do it, but they do rule out every single approach that I can think of.
(order book, fundamental analysis, DOM/time+sales trading, charts, price action trading, statistics etc etc)
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Is insider info considered fundamental analysis?



Quote from emg:


TA and price action trading methods are killing small traders because they are lower educated. Geez, small trades did not invent HFT, it was the mathematicians. with the trading formula (TA and price action) becomes outdated (no longer works), sell them to small traders.
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I would have expected some underpaid, overworked consultant to leak this by now.



Quote from StarDust9182:

I read one fellow's post on the urinal and he hinted that there are secret ways of being one with the car but he won't tell me exactly how.
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Drive a stick. Or buy a Hummer.
 
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