Is there anything i can do to get around the PDT rule?

[destriero]

PDT forced a lot of small traders into futures so from 4:1 intraday to 7:1 overnight. Sounds feasible.

1) Don't open/close intraday. Swing trade at the close of the day -> cover next day's session or beyond.

2) Trade synthetics at x, cover at y; you're in a box at the end of the day at a few $100 in haircut.

3) Buy DITM calls/puts. You're up but want to be flat EOD? Short the next available strike call/put. Say you're long the GOOGL 80C and you're up $3 on the day and you sell the GOOGL 85C.

1) Clean and low stress other than ON risk.
2) Microstructure/edge loss on the combos, but you'll never violate PDT.
3) Same as 2.

 

[TheDawn]

Article is 22 years out of date. Since then commissions have collapsed. We have had the meme stock phenomena. Quote spreads are now in pennies
We need statistics on average daily day trading volume.
Anybody?

I gave you those articles specifically to show you how stock daytrading volume was reduced right after the dot-com crash and the changing of pricing system from fractional to decimal because that what I was saying before. How daytrading in stocks reduced but the rule that was enacted to curtail daytrading stuck.

 

[TheDawn]

It was a rule that has been put in place to prevent 'small' retail traders to blow up their account. The key is to keep them alive as long as possible. Cause if they blow up too soon, they will no longer participate in the market (paying fees and comm + get on the wrong side).
Pros of all kind are making money out of the retail traders pocket.

Yeah supposedly. All rules enacted are all for protection of us retail traders from ourselves, yes. And big institutions never blow up their accounts, no of course not. LOL That's the "interesting" thing that I observed about enacting rules for us retail traders. They somehow always enact them when we are making money. People were making tons of profit back then during the heyday of dotcom and fractional pricing system so they had to put in PDT so the clueless losers who didn't know how to trade and never bothered to learn how to trade properly never bothered to demo trade properly won't lose money. But how about enacting a rule against the brokers and the MM's to forbid them to restrict shares transactions when daytraders had higher possibility of succeeding like during the meme stock phenomenon? The way that all the brokers banded together and restricted share purchases/selling was clearly guilty of tacit colluding, price fixing, violation of client fiduciary duties; those are just a few of the charges that came up to my mind I am sure a securities lawyer can think of lot more but did they enact any rules or laws against those brokers/MM's? No.

Rules are there to "protect" us retail traders from making money. Got it!

 

[destriero]

Yeah supposedly. All rules enacted are all for protection of us retail traders from ourselves, yes. And big institutions never blow up their accounts, no of course not. LOL That's the "interesting" thing that I observed about enacting rules for us retail traders. They somehow always enact them when we are making money. People were making tons of profit back then during the heyday of dotcom and fractional pricing system so they had to put in PDT so the clueless losers who didn't know how to trade and never bothered to learn how to trade properly never bothered to demo trade properly won't lose money. But how about enacting a rule against the brokers and the MM's to forbid them to restrict shares transactions when daytraders had higher possibility of succeeding like during the meme stock phenomenon? The way that all the brokers banded together and restricted share purchases/selling was clearly guilty of tacit colluding, price fixing, violation of client fiduciary duties; those are just a few of the charges that came up to my mind I am sure a securities lawyer can think of lot more but did they enact any rules or laws against those brokers/MM's? No.

Rules are there to "protect" us retail traders from making money. Got it!

Nobody stopped you from shorting GME via the synthetic. Ironically you could have shorted the synthetic in GME and covered in shares during the same session (complete the conversion arb) and it would not count against PDT.

 

[TheDawn]

Nobody stopped you from shorting GME via the synthetic. Ironically you could have shorted the synthetic in GME and covered in shares during the same session (complete the conversion arb) and it would not count against PDT.

Read about how the brokers and MM's restricted shares purchases and besides why would I short GME when GME was in a gamma-squeeze (there is our favourite gamma again)?? Were you alive during the meme stock phenomenon or were you in a coma or something? Or is that how you trade? Explains why you spend so much time on ET here cuz you are losing so much money and you need to bully people here in order to give yourself a reason to live. LOL Pathetic!!

And besides that had nothing to do with PDT. I just talked about that to show how rules like PDT are always enacted against us retail traders and never for us. You obviously didn't read my entire post or read it but didn't understand it due to your massive brain damage.

 

[destriero]

Read about how the brokers and MM's restricted shares purchases and besides why would I short GME when GME was in a gamma-squeeze (there is our favourite gamma again)?? Were you alive during the meme stock phenomenon or were you in a coma or something? Or is that how you trade? Explains why you spend so much time on ET here cuz you are losing so much money and you need to bully people here in order to give yourself a reason to live. LOL

And besides that had nothing to do with PDT. I just talked about that to show how rules like PDT are always enacted against us retail traders and never for us. You obviously didn't read my entire post or read it but didn't understand it due to your massive brain damage.

You weren't allowed to buy GME? Robinhood? Classy!

I wasn't aware your plebes weren't allowed to go long. I ASSumed that you were talking about restricted shorts due to a HTB condition.

Guess what?

You can buy the GME synthetic at the same price as the natural. Even at RH! No restrictions!

 

[TheDawn]

You weren't allowed to buy GME? Robinhood? Classy!

I wasn't aware your plebes weren't allowed to go long. I ASSumed that you were talking about restricted shorts due to a HTB condition.

Guess what?

You can buy the GME synthetic at the same price as the natural. Even at RH! No restrictions!

No we weren't allowed to buy GME!! Type in "stock restrictions meme stock" into google and read about it. So you were dead or in a coma at the time?

 

[rb7]

Yeah supposedly. All rules enacted are all for protection of us retail traders from ourselves, yes. And big institutions never blow up their accounts, no of course not. LOL That's the "interesting" thing that I observed about enacting rules for us retail traders. They somehow always enact them when we are making money. People were making tons of profit back then during the heyday of dotcom and fractional pricing system so they had to put in PDT so the clueless losers who didn't know how to trade and never bothered to learn how to trade properly never bothered to demo trade properly won't lose money. But how about enacting a rule against the brokers and the MM's to forbid them to restrict shares transactions when daytraders had higher possibility of succeeding like during the meme stock phenomenon? The way that all the brokers banded together and restricted share purchases/selling was clearly guilty of tacit colluding, price fixing, violation of client fiduciary duties; those are just a few of the charges that came up to my mind I am sure a securities lawyer can think of lot more but did they enact any rules or laws against those brokers/MM's? No.

Rules are there to "protect" us retail traders from making money. Got it!

Rules are not there to prevent retail traders from making money. They are there to prevent them to disappear.
Less retail traders means less money for the big players.
Don't ask why PFOF is so attractive for the ones paying for it.

When rules are put in place, they don't ask to moms and dads and their relatives for their opinions. They listen to market participants and regulated entities (brokers, exchanges, clearing houses, etc.).

 

[destriero]

No we weren't allowed to buy GME!! Type in "stock restrictions meme stock" into google and read about it. So you were dead or in a coma at the time?

Who's we? Robinhood plebes?


Buy call at 100(k); short put at 100(k). You're now long 100 shares of GME with no restrictions. Req is RegT. Quoting a small matrix of synthetics is good practice for Eloy who are restricted from buying shares at bucket shops.

 

[destriero]

Who's we? Robinhood plebes?


Buy call at 100(k); short put at 100(k). You're now long 100 shares of GME with no restrictions. Req is RegT. Quoting a small matrix of synthetics is good practice for Eloy who are restricted from buying shares at bucket shops.

So you're restricted on GME and under PDT?

Buy 100-strike synthetic -> om nom nom GME rallies -> short 105-strike synthetic! You're now long the box and your only risk is assignment and tiny rho. Meaningless req on the 5-wide long box. This assumes the vol was trading, but on RH it's probably also restricted.

The above is a working example for avoiding PDT.