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is there an order type that makes my order sitting at NBBO?
- Thread starter trend2009
- Start date
Exchanges don't like traders submitting 1000's of orders that are not going to be filled. Regulators don't like it as they think you may be manipulating or as mentioned above spoofing. Brokers don't like it as you eat up their infrastructure which can be a substantial cost and for firms like light speed that sell their flow, the HFTs purchasing their flow probably hate dealing with this as well but I only say probably as the pattern is so evident it is easy for them to game or trade against you.
https://www.marketconductrules.com/risks/placing-orders-with-no-intention-of-executing-them.html
Definition
entering of orders which are withdrawn before execution, thus having the effect, or which are likely to have the effect, of giving a misleading impression that there is demand for or supply of a financial instrument, a related spot commodity contract, or an auctioned product based on emission allowances at that price. Placing orders with no intention of executing them may also be illustrated by the following additional indicators of market manipulation:
Surveillance
- orders to trade inserted with such a price that they increase the bid or decrease the offer, and have the effect, or are likely to have the effect, of increasing or decreasing the price of a related financial instrument;
- the high ratio of cancelled orders (e.g. order to trade ratio)
Effective implementation of surveillance alerts for placing orders with no intention of executing them requires capturing the following trade data:
Order to trade ratio is often used in surveillance alerts to detect placing orders with no intention of executing them. Layering and spoofing and advancing the bid are special cases of placing orders with no intention of executing them.
- trade data
- order and quote data including unexecuted quotes and orders
Spoofing is a totally different story. It's the practice of entering a high volume of fake orders that have no intention of ever having them filled only just to manipulate the price. I am talking about ONE legitimate order that is entered in between the bid/ask spread just to get a better fill price that was only canceled and re-entered with a modified price because the price has moved away. I have the right to have my order executed on the best price possible for me to make a profit, not for brokers, dealers or anyone else to fatten their pockets. I don't give a crap about upsetting broker's "infrastructure" because they happen to be selling order flows which they are not supposed to do in the first place because that's conflict of interest. There is a reason why there are multiple central exchanges so that everybody can have a chance to buy/sell financial instruments at a fair and transparent price not subject to market makers manipulations. And everybody's orders are supposed to be sent to central exchanges right away for everybody to hit on. The fact that they didn't is really in a way in violation of client agreement. I have paid my broker commissions, fair and square, in return for their agreeing to transmit my order to be executed at the best price possible.
It's really appalling that screwing retail traders is used as a legitimate excuse to fleece retail traders by even accusing retail traders of spoofing, a practice that's actually used by HFT's themselves to manipulate the market. Talking about calling the kettle black.
Doesn't matter. Hundreds of updates without a fill - ticks off lots of the boxes in this highly regulated world.
Anyway this has nothing to do with regulations as we retail traders are not the ones who are in the wrong here. We just want our order to be filled with a fair price.
It can get a bit confusing, these discussions. Are you a registered pro trader or a retail trader trying to have it both ways? It’s good to have that context.
i am a retail trader. does it make difference to broker as long as I pay the commissions?It can get a bit confusing, these discussions. Are you a registered pro trader or a retail trader trying to have it both ways? It’s good to have that context.
Seems like the market want retail out. HTF is doing really crazy stuff on stocks and we get a call for "spoofing".
Last year I was in a prop that everytime I moved an order more than 20 times, the stock
Last year I was in a prop that everytime I moved an order more than 20 times, the stock
I use a strategy in which I buy and sell the order sitting on NBBO while I wait for others so they make an attempt to hit me. This is how I work on capturing the ask-bid spread.
I do not know how to lower down. I used relative order, but when bid moves down, my order does not move down with it, so it does not fill my purpose. any thoughts?
just to clarify, is your order a odd lot order (<100) or a whole lot order (multiply of 100), I also encountered the same issue, which the rel order only go up with the bid but do not come down when bid fall
I use a strategy in which I buy and sell the order sitting on NBBO while I wait for others so they make an attempt to hit me. This is how I work on capturing the ask-bid spread.
mind sharing how do you do that without manually changing the order price (without using rel), as far as I know rel is the best option when want to fill at extreme of bid-ask