Is there an order in the Universe?

[stu]

I can't see how anyone can believe in a randomly created universe either especially as there is no evidence it is random or that it is created.

 

[2cents]

Quote from jem:

2 cents - I will get the book. By the way I am not even saying the anthropic principle or ID is correct. I actually doubt it could be so simple that we fully comprehend the situation right now.

I doubt the multiverse thing on a visceral level.

I am simply struck by the debate. I like to point out to atheists, when they get on their high horse, that their belief in the randomly created universe is (currently) faith based.

I also have a hope that the designer has left an elegant solution to the puzzle -- but that is a philosophical speculation supported by my read of some bible verses

simple it is not, but thats the beauty of it!

jem - a-theists are only saying that the belief that the universe is created, is faith-based, which shld be rather obvious... they themselves hold no such belief... i can understand why some theists wld want to turn the argument but it seems to me that it isn't the proper thing to do... as for faith itself, it is not exclusively a religious state of mind, mind u, but thats all it is though, a state of mind, albeit an extraordinary 'powerful' one... becauses it shuts doubt, fear etc out while the mind is in that state, therefore a formidable 'defense' system

but not necessarily one that is helpful in solving the mysteries of life, the universe etc... whether one is of a religious nature or not, when it comes to that, might as well keep an open mind ;-)

 

[2cents]

btw, u realize that the multiverse is a concept that is found in most religions & philosophical systems, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_(cosmology)

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from stu:

I can't see how anyone can believe in a randomly created universe either especially as there is no evidence it is random or that it is created.

It is random, we just don't know in what order.

It is created, we just don't know by what.

 

[2cents]

Quote from 2cents:

http://www.amazon.com/Parallel-Worlds-Through-Creation-Dimensions/dp/0385509863 really well done and approacheable

now for ppl who have a strong maths / physics background and a strong appetite, and tolerance for pain, here is a good 'starting point' for understanding the n-categorical physics underpinning the work of pretty much everybody in the field, incl. hawking, susskind etc:

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/history.pdf

somewhat 'friendlier' stuff can be found here:
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/quantum_spacetime/

let the pain start

 

[stu]

Quote from 2cents:

simple it is not, but thats the beauty of it!

jem - a-theists are only saying that the belief that the universe is created, is faith-based, which shld be rather obvious... they themselves hold no such belief... i can understand why some theists wld want to turn the argument but it seems to me that it isn't the proper thing to do... as for faith itself, it is not exclusively a religious state of mind, mind u, but thats all it is though, a state of mind, albeit an extraordinary 'powerful' one... becauses it shuts doubt, fear etc out while the mind is in that state, therefore a formidable 'defense' system

but not necessarily one that is helpful in solving the mysteries of life, the universe etc... whether one is of a religious nature or not, when it comes to that, might as well keep an open mind ;-)

come on jem, I hold out the hand of peace and goodwill to you. Let's bury the hatchet (or the 'axe-chet ' (gettit? ) After reading that (I hope you agree) rather excellant post of 2 cents, let's try to understand each other a little better. Waddya say eh?

 

[jzlucas]

Half of Americans uncertain God exists: poll.


http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/31/061031235233.s0l4o4wy.html

 

[2cents]

only????????????? whatever... how about santa claus?

 

[neophyte321]

Quote from 2cents:

only????????????? whatever... how about santa claus?

Is there anything you are certain that doesn't exist?

The idea of God is forever evolving, and I'm not quite certain why people are so eager to kill all notions of divinity.

God created the trees, flowers, the stars. There is no way to refute this without knowing what god is.

I believe in belief ...

 

[2cents]

yeah sure whaddya want for xmas pal?

not to leave yr question unanswered though: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1226991&highlight=gods#post1226991