Is the West in terminal decline?

[morganist]

Quote from denner:

I hear the exact same thing from every baby boomer. Kind of a sick attitude.

And there is no possible way that there is 40 years left in this thing. So, the boomers will have to suffer like everyone else.

Yeah they are shits. Never before has there been a generation that has indebted its own children like this before. They have an intention of maintaining a lifestyle and it doesn't matter who loses out to keep it. It used to be the third world. But now even their children are going to be the losers to maintain their lifestyle.

It would be a justicie if reincarnation was true and the Boomers were made to live the lives they gave to their children.

 

[trefoil]

Quote from EMRGLOBAL:

The West is not in terminal decline. They've gone through a bit of a slump due to sub-optimal politics, smugness, and some negative demographic changes. Those are all temporary.
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Really? What the hell do you do for a living, teach?

The west is in a massive decline period.

Sub-optimal politics? You must be in academics.

How about the destruction of Capitalism and Small Business? What about the destruction of the US Constitution? Oh, let me guess, your not one who believes in the CONSTITUTION but more of the "COLLECTIVE GOOD" right?

If you have chosen to live in a POS state with a POS education system yeah, you got no chance.
I was in NYC yesterday for the first time in a while. I'd forgotten how alive that city is, and how far it's come from the mess it was in before Giuliani (who is, unbelievably, too far to the left for the national Republican party) got in and fixed the place.
Back when this country had a Republican party that wasn't controlled by Internet assholes, they could throw up real people with real brains like Giuliani for national office. Now, because they listen to idiots like you, all they do is throw up.
As for the country, it's doing just fine. I have a large family that covers the gamut in terms of income, and all of them are doing OK, some a little worse, some a little better. Among my neighbors, the guy across the street who was on the edge got a job in the city and is now doing better. He was the one in the worst shape around here.
So from what I see, it's the same as you see in the stats: slow, steady improvement. Anyone who thinks the sky is falling needs to get out some, or maybe just plain get out.

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from morganist:

Yeah they are shits. Never before has there been a generation that has indebted its own children like this before. They have an intention of maintaining a lifestyle and it doesn't matter who loses out to keep it. It used to be the third world. But now even their children are going to be the losers to maintain their lifestyle.

It would be a justicie if reincarnation was true and the Boomers were made to live the lives they gave to their children.

Whoa Buckeraoo! I think you're full of crap on this one.

The Boomers made the most money, paid the most taxes, were resposible for the greatest economic boom in the history of man.. fought the great war. It's not our fault the government decided to STEAL the SS reserve.

I don't hear any Boomers crying, "give me everything and charge it to my kids and grandkids"...

If you want to lay blame, at least do so where deserved... CONGRESS!

The Boomers are getting SCREWED too, just like everybody else.

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from denner:

I hear the exact same thing from every baby boomer.

Doubt it. Bullshit exaggeration.

Most of us don't know "come here from sick 'em", just like you.

 

[zdreg]

go to Michigan where there will soon be many vacation homes for sale but none will be sold.

http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-mich-exempt-1-car-food-stamps-210434891.html

what a country the US has become.

 

[piezoe]

Quote from Scataphagos:

Whoa Buckeraoo! I think you're full of crap on this one.

The Boomers made the most money, paid the most taxes, were resposible for the greatest economic boom in the history of man.. fought the great war. It's not our fault the government decided to STEAL the SS reserve.

I don't hear any Boomers crying, "give me everything and charge it to my kids and grandkids"...

If you want to lay blame, at least do so where deserved... CONGRESS!

The Boomers are getting SCREWED too, just like everybody else.

Scat, we agree on so little that i'm always surprised to find myself somewhat in accord with you. Where we would still disagree, I think, is in laying blame on one political party or another, though there is no way I can ignore the intellectual deterioration in the Republican party that seems to be accelerating as of late. It seems that statesmen have deserted that party, and it is a shame. The Republicans now strike me as a strange conglomeration of religious nuts, poorly educated country bumpkins, and businessmen who pride themselves on their capitalist principles without showing any real understanding of capitalism, its strengths and weaknesses. They seem to be largely incapable of thinking beyond catch phrases and media sound bites. Many of them seem to have got hold of the idea that everything will get better if only we make government smaller and tax less -- two things most of us favor in fact. Some of them despise President Obama -- a rather good President compared to his predecessor certainly. These folks would rather wreak havoc then see Obama in charge for another four years. This kind of thinking is not rational, and if these folks prevail we truly will be in trouble. Their mishmash of disparate goals including killing Obamacare, rolling back taxes still further, outlawing abortion, doing away with the EPA and the Department of Education, will not reduce unemployment nor repatriate lost jobs, will not rebuild the middle class, will not reverse increasing income polarization, and will not slow the Country's evermore ominous move toward becoming a police State.

I'm not going to bat for Democrats mind you. I only observe that they seem slightly less retarded and slightly less devoid of Statesmen then the current crop of Republicans.

Yes, I agree fully with you that it is our Congress that has really let us down.

 

[trefoil]

Quote from zdreg:

go to Michigan where there will soon be many vacation homes for sale but none will be sold.

http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-mich-exempt-1-car-food-stamps-210434891.html

what a country the US has become.

I have a book on urban economics from the late fifties or early sixties that pointed out that Detroit was in what seemed like a perpetual recession because of its overreliance on the car industry.
It's now what, fifty, sixty years later? The only surprise is that anyone still thinks Michigan has a snowball's chance in that warm place most of us are going of ever being economically self-sufficient.

 

[john barley]

Quote from piezoe:


Yes, I agree fully with you that it is our Congress that has really let us down. [/B]

Congress hasn't let "us" down. They're doing exactly what every congress does. They represent the people who elect them, all while skimming off a bit off the top, of course.

The problem is the country is too large and too diverse. The larger a country the harder it is to govern properly. Every diverse country faces the problem where groups fight for government favors while disregarding the well-being of the state as a whole.

This is discussed nicely in: The Elusive Quest for Growth: Economists' Adventures and Misadventures in the Tropics

There are only two ways to counter this trend in a country that lacks unity.

One is to form policies autocratically rather than democratically and to have a leadership that is not totally corrupt but actually cares about the state. This will never happen in America. This is basically what China and other E. Asian countries have right now to varying degrees.

The second is for a large external threat to force diverse people into alliance. China could provide this but it's unlikely as they are very cautious and know they must keep under the radar at least until they hold clear dominance over the West. You don't see any of the Soviet-style blustering from them.

On top of those problems, the US is experiencing a terrible demographic trend where the marginally productive, who at best could contribute in a factory or simple service-based economy, are out-growing the productive by a ratio of 6:1 (when you look at the number of offspring, the age of reproduction, and immigration).

This wouldn't be so bad 100 years ago. But with today's technology, many of those people will go from marginally productive to completely useless and have to be merely supported.

China (and most of the rest of E. Asia) understands all these things and is pragmatic about them.

While your characterization of the Republican party is apt (mostly groups chasing their interests), the Democratic party might be in a worse condition. They're led by idealists, who though arguably have good intentions, will not face today's realities. The back-end of the democratic party, just like the Republicans, is just another coalition of widely different groups chasing separate interests.

 

[denner]

Quote from morganist:

Yeah they are shits. Never before has there been a generation that has indebted its own children like this before. They have an intention of maintaining a lifestyle and it doesn't matter who loses out to keep it. It used to be the third world. But now even their children are going to be the losers to maintain their lifestyle.

It would be a justicie if reincarnation was true and the Boomers were made to live the lives they gave to their children.

Yep, Scat is just another baby boomer "tit sucker" in a general sense. Quoting his grandfather who lived thru the Depression is a nice special effect, but it doesn't fool some of us.

A broken record of the same tired tripe over and over again.

 

[piezoe]

Quote from john barley:

Congress hasn't let "us" down. They're doing exactly what every congress does. They represent the people who elect them, all while skimming off a bit off the top, of course.

The problem is the country is too large and too diverse. The larger a country the harder it is to govern properly. Every diverse country faces the problem where groups fight for government favors while disregarding the well-being of the state as a whole.

This is discussed nicely in: The Elusive Quest for Growth: Economists' Adventures and Misadventures in the Tropics

There are only two ways to counter this trend in a country that lacks unity.

One is to form policies autocratically rather than democratically and to have a leadership that is not totally corrupt but actually cares about the state. This will never happen in America. This is basically what China and other E. Asian countries have right now to varying degrees.

The second is for a large external threat to force diverse people into alliance. China could provide this but it's unlikely as they are very cautious and know they must keep under the radar at least until they hold clear dominance over the West. You don't see any of the Soviet-style blustering from them.

On top of those problems, the US is experiencing a terrible demographic trend where the marginally productive, who at best could contribute in a factory or simple service-based economy, are out-growing the productive by a ratio of 6:1 (when you look at the number of offspring, the age of reproduction, and immigration).

This wouldn't be so bad 100 years ago. But with today's technology, many of those people will go from marginally productive to completely useless and have to be merely supported.

China (and most of the rest of E. Asia) understands all these things and is pragmatic about them.

While your characterization of the Republican party is apt (mostly groups chasing their interests), the Democratic party might be in a worse condition. They're led by idealists, who though arguably have good intentions, will not face today's realities. The back-end of the democratic party, just like the Republicans, is just another coalition of widely different groups chasing separate interests.

OK. Maybe Congress hasn't let you down, but they have certainly let me done. They've done a very poor job of representing me, even though I helped elect them. Perhaps we would all be better served if Congress would work on the problems you've mentioned rather than wasting time passing resolutions affirming that "In God We Trust".