Is the USA capable of making ANY decisions anymore? Keystone Pipeline

Kassz007 · Nov 14, 2011

Some interesting developments over the weekend. It looks like Harper has confirmed that Canada is now full blown turning to China instead of the USA on this matter.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2011/11/13/18962481.html

Harper on economy: 'Look Far East'

Prime Minister Stephen Harper says he's not just disappointed by American foot-dragging on the proposed Keystone pipeline that would run from Alberta to Texas, he's also drawn a lesson from it.

"I did indicate to (U.S. President Barack Obama), as I did to the president of China (on Saturday), and as our government has indicated, that this highlights why Canada must increase its efforts to ensure it can supply its energy outside the United States, and into Asia in particular, and that in the meantime Canada will step up its efforts in that regard," Harper said.

Harper just won a majority government, so he isn't going anywhere for at least four years. That's plenty of time to hash out some energy deals with China. Unless the situation changes dramatically, it seems inevitable that the oil that would have flowed through Keystone XL will be headed to Asia.

Kassz007 · Nov 14, 2011

Quote from piezoe:

Just to bring this discussion back to reality: The U.S. is already Canada's biggest customer for petroleum, and Canada supplies more oil to the U.S. than any other country, including Saudi Arabia. The U.S. will always be Canada's preferred customer, and Canadian oil will always be cheaper for the U.S. to buy than for China because of transportation costs.

Also, Canada has more oil than the USA wants right now. Hence Canada's desire to ship it to Asia. The preferred customer is your next door neighbour, but when your next door neighbour doesn't want your product, you have to turn elsewhere for sales.

Kassz007 · Nov 22, 2011

An article from Bloomber today:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...king-anxiety-over-lust-for-fossil-fuels.html#

Oil Abundance in Canada Provokes Anxiety
By John Lippert and Jeremy van Loon - Nov 22, 2011 12:00 AM ET

...

"Rivals Exxon Mobil Corp. (XOM) and China Petroleum & Chemical Corp. (386) each have bought a piece of Syncrude, one of the dozens of companies that are blasting, digging and steaming soil laden with 143 billion barrels of molasseslike crude called bitumen, Bloomberg Markets magazine reports in its January issue. Only Saudi Arabia, with 264 billion barrels, and Venezuela, with 211 billion, enjoy greater proven reserves, a BP Plc energy review found in June.

Some of the worldâs biggest energy producers have poured C$123 billion (US$120 billion) into Canadaâs oil sands since 1997. The Canadian Energy Research Institute, or CERI, predicts that these companies will pay another C$137 billion by 2020 to tap the Florida-sized regionâs unique advantage: rising oil production taking place in a stable democracy thatâs close to the massive American market. "

...

The delay or even death of Keystone XL wonât mean the end of the oil sands, says Jeff Rubin, former chief economist in Toronto for CIBC World Markets Inc. Instead, losing that pipeline would push more Canadian oil across the Pacific, says Rubin, author of âWhy Your World is About to Get a Whole Lot Smaller: Oil and the End of Globalizationâ (Random House, 2009).

âPrices are higher and customers arenât so worried about carbon in Asia,ââ he says.

TransCanada Chief Executive Officer Russ Girling says China is interested in Canadaâs crude.

âThe Chinese have been the single largest investor in Canadian oil sands over the last couple of years,â Girling said in a Nov. 17 interview at Bloombergâs New York headquarters.

Harper says heâll make increasing exports to Asia a government priority.

âThis does underscore the necessity of Canada making sure that weâre able to access Asian markets,â he said on Nov. 13, referring to the U.S. delay.

...

Chinaâs hand in the oil sands may threaten U.S. interests, says Daniel Yergin, author of The Quest: Energy, Security and the Remaking of the Modern World (Penguin, 2011).

âIf a significant portion of the oil sands is sold to China, it would be a major lost opportunity for U.S. energy security,â Yergin says.

adadadog · Nov 22, 2011

There was another news a few days ago. U.S. state department has established a division to advocate Natural Gas, try to sell Shale gas to Saudis for replacing crude oil and to Chinese for replacing coal in power generation. Sounds like U.S. has more than enough energy in NG.

Kassz007 · Nov 22, 2011

Quote from adadadog:

There was another news a few days ago. U.S. state department has established a division to advocate Natural Gas, try to sell Shale gas to Saudis for replacing crude oil and to Chinese for replacing coal in power generation. Sounds like U.S. has more than enough energy in NG.

As I understand it, the USA has a very large amount of untapped natural gas. I have mulled over investing in natural gas in some way shape or form for years now, expecting a move toward natural gas as a new energy source. But so far, price remains low and as far as I know, there has been no push. Maybe it is too difficult or expensive to extract? I am aware of significant environmental concerns with fracking.

adadadog · Nov 22, 2011

Quote from Kassz007:

As I understand it, the USA has a very large amount of untapped natural gas. I have mulled over investing in natural gas in some way shape or form for years now, expecting a move toward natural gas as a new energy source. But so far, price remains low and as far as I know, there has been no push. Maybe it is too difficult or expensive to extract? I am aware of significant environmental concerns with fracking.

You may want to do more research on this.
The pitch point of U.S. is that NG more clean. There has been new tech in extract NG cheaply. It makes sense the NG price is continuing going down when supply is becoming more abundant. I would think investing in tech using NG, rather than NG itself, is more sensible.

EMRGLOBAL · Nov 22, 2011

As I understand it, the USA has a very large amount of untapped natural gas. I have mulled over investing in natural gas in some way shape or form for years now
----------

KAZZZ. It is true. I raise near 2.5 million a month for DPPs projects, mainly in Texas. The Eagle Ford Shale is the biggest find in the US and based on Volumemetrics, it's a shit ton of Nati.

The Crack Spread has been outa wack for some time.

I will not give you investment advice. However, if you buy nati futures, you have to roll them over. So, your subject to looses every roll over period as contract prices drop, very few rise.

Investing in ETFs...subject to Market Manipulation.

IMHO, Nati will be back up near 14 but this could take years.

First, the US policy must shift from dream land to reality ...Nati being the true alternitive energy...to OIL.

Kassz007 · Nov 22, 2011

Quote from adadadog:

You may want to do more research on this.
The pitch point of U.S. is that NG more clean. There has been new tech in extract NG cheaply. It makes sense the NG price is continuing going down when supply is becoming more abundant. I would think investing in tech using NG, rather than NG itself, is more sensible.

Yes, my intention was never to invest in NG itself, but in some type of offshoot on the NG industry. Everything I've found so far is too risky for my appetite.

What is this new technology you speak of?

I'm also under the impression that if natural gas was going to seriously replace crude as an energy source, demand would be much higher, thus driving price up, despite supply increases.

Kassz007 · Nov 22, 2011

Quote from EMRGLOBAL:

As I understand it, the USA has a very large amount of untapped natural gas. I have mulled over investing in natural gas in some way shape or form for years now
----------

KAZZZ. It is true. I raise near 2.5 million a month for DPPs projects, mainly in Texas. The Eagle Ford Shale is the biggest find in the US and based on Volumemetrics, it's a shit ton of Nati.

The Crack Spread has been outa wack for some time.

I will not give you investment advice. However, if you buy nati futures, you have to roll them over. So, your subject to looses every roll over period as contract prices drop, very few rise.

Investing in ETFs...subject to Market Manipulation.

IMHO, Nati will be back up near 14 but this could take years.

First, the US policy must shift from dream land to reality ...Nati being the true alternitive energy...to OIL.

I'm not interested in investing in NG futures or ETFs. Like I said, I've been mulling over getting exposed to NG in some way shape or form for a couple of years now, but have not found anything worthwhile. Like you said, US policy must support NG before I'd make a move.

adadadog · Nov 22, 2011

Quote from Kassz007:

Yes, my intention was never to invest in NG itself, but in some type of offshoot on the NG industry. Everything I've found so far is too risky for my appetite.

What is this new technology you speak of?

I'm also under the impression that if natural gas was going to seriously replace crude as an energy source, demand would be much higher, thus driving price up, despite supply increases.

http://hornrivernews.com/2009/07/26/shale-gas-technology-continues-to-evolve-and-bring-down-costs/