Is the UK finished?

[Dragons Teeth]

Quote from Misthos:Remember the UK before the global credit bubble and before Lady Thatcher privatized efforts to extract North Sea Oil? It was a mess.

BNOC was responsible for a extremely small part of North Sea development you make sound like whole of UK oil and gas was under national control, are you from the UK if you are where are you getting your information from. BNOC was launched in 1975 under the Petroleum & Submarine Pipe-lines Act 1975 and mostly concerned with getting adequate supplies of oil onshore to lessen the UK dependence on Mid_East oil supplies of which at the time looked a bit shaky.
Some oil economists reckon that if BNOC had been kept under national control and assumed responsibility for pipeline and landfall infrastructure this would have created greater shareholder value in the exploitation companies.
BNOC was sold off between 1982-85 thereafter BP bought it in 1988

 

[Misthos]

Quote from Dragons Teeth:

BNOC was responsible for a extremely small part of North Sea development you make sound like whole of UK oil and gas was under national control, are you from the UK if you are where are you getting your information from. BNOC was launched in 1975 under the Petroleum & Submarine Pipe-lines Act 1975 and mostly concerned with getting adequate supplies of oil onshore to lessen the UK dependence on Mid_East oil supplies of which at the time looked a bit shaky.
Some oil economists reckon that if BNOC had been kept under national control and assumed responsibility for pipeline and landfall infrastructure this would have created greater shareholder value in the exploitation companies.
BNOC was sold off between 1982-85 thereafter BP bought it in 1988

I was not referring to BNOC, but to production in general. PM Thatcher did push for greater private sector involvement in North Sea Oil which, in my view, boosted production.

You can't ignore North Sea Oil's effects on Britains balance of payments, interest rates, and effect on the pound sterling, and ultimately on Thatcher's power to deal with unions. North Sea Oil, in my view, helped the UK out of the sluggish 1970s. Here's a graphic on production below. Wouldn't you want to be a leader of a country that experiences that kind of energy windfall?

Nonetheless, the North Sea is in decline, and there are real world consequences to the UK's trade, account deficit, and pound sterling. And the City's banks can no longer create money out of thin air to maintain an illusion of prosperity.

The UK will experience the 1970s once again - maybe terminally, and that to me, means the UK is finished.

And by the way - British North Sea Oil peaked in 1999. Yes, oilfields do peak.

 

[Dragons Teeth]

Quote from Misthos:

I was not referring to BNOC, but to production in general. PM Thatcher did push for greater private sector involvement in North Sea Oil which, in my view, boosted production.

You can't ignore North Sea Oil's effects on Britains balance of payments, interest rates, and effect on the pound sterling, and ultimately on Thatcher's power to deal with unions. North Sea Oil, in my view, helped the UK out of the sluggish 1970s. Here's a graphic on production below. Wouldn't you want to be a leader of a country that experiences that kind of energy windfall?

Nonetheless, the North Sea is in decline, and there are real world consequences to the UK's trade, account deficit, and pound sterling. And the City's banks can no longer create money out of thin air to maintain an illusion of prosperity.

The UK will experience the 1970s once again - maybe terminally, and that to me, means the UK is finished.

And by the way - British North Sea Oil peaked in 1999. Yes, oilfields do peak.

The North Sea exploitation was driven by private enterprise and investment from day one BNOC was set up to get oil ashore and into the refineries quicker than had in the past in a very tight credit environment. There is little real evidence that Thatcher had clear and consistent energy policies and the North Sea was just another way of paying for the welfare society that she helped create. I am not disputing peak oil or how the UK's economy will pan out in the next 20 years just the allusion that Thatcher somehow set free production of oil and gas in UK waters.

 

[fundjunkie]

Quote from Misthos:



The UK will experience the 1970s once again - maybe terminally, and that to me, means the UK is finished.

Let's get one thing straight. Britain will not experience the 1970's again. Different age, and a totally different set of circumstances.

Any nation is to a large extent the sum of it's talent base, ie. it's people. As Britain is not, and will not be "finished" in the talent department any time soon I expect the ecnomy to morph and adapt to the times and things to get better. But also the UK has always been a major player in the Financial services industry and that will continue.

This thread is guilty of the kind of mindset that plagues investment generally - linearly projecting the present into the future. I also suspect there's some people contributing to this thread who're either anti-British or simply childish (maybe both, they probably correlate).

Thx
D

p.s. Maybe England would be better of without the dead weight of the Celts (particularly the Scots). It would be a move towards the kind of economic change that might be needed to galvanize things more quickly than they otherwise might.

 

[henry76]

dear logic ( what a wonderfull sense of irony ) it's about perspective , balance and truth , not nuerotic jumping to conclusions , the uk is quite literally "not finished", countries fortunes come and go , rather like currencies they go up and down , but untill they are no longer there they are not finished , yes in your mind they maybe finished , but your mind makes george bush look like a geniuse, and a sane one at that !

 

[ammo]

i see a lot of supposedly brits jumping in defense, as would be expected,so no offense meant here because i think we're all in the shit here, since your an island and the same problems you would think would be an easier fix on a smaller scale, what would you propose just to fix Britain, if you did declare bankruptcy and got rid of a lot of dead wood what would happen. Here we have the house and senate in the back pockets of industry and they couldn't fix it, even if they had a solution,they've already sold there names and the industry has photographs, signatures, small plane accidents, sudden heart attacks, ,just in case they change their minds

 

[fundjunkie]

Quote from ammo:

since your an island and the same problems you would think would be an easier fix on a smaller scale, what would you propose just to fix Britain

Britain's problems have been characterized by knowldgable commentators as being on a par with those of the US.

Britain doesn't need "fixing". Like many nations it has large debts arising out of this crisis and like many nations faces years of deleveraging to sort it out. It is not the most endebted and is not looking down the gun barrel of debt any more than other major economies.

The big question is when and how the Government will go about cutting the deficits. That'll be fully revealed after the election. The pain, and drag on growth is something we'll just have to live with for a few years.

Personally, I hope Labour doesn't win the election as I suspect they'll lean too heaviliy towards tax rises to fill the gap whereas the Conservatives will be more aggressive in making the kind of public spending cuts that will balance the books more quickly and allow the economy to grow normally again.

Thx
D

 

[ashatet]

There is only 1 main problem with UK which is similar to what we have in USA. People want to do nothing but be managers, entertainers, and bureaucrats.

I visited UK in 2003-2004 time frame and I was very confused. The country side is the most fun place to be and in summer the whole country smells great like a garden. But, I could not understand that a society that works so little lives large like that. Most teens are spoiled and expect that the world owes them. Most of the kids seem to be growing up to be actors, singers and entertainers in general. Having said that, I have met and worked with some very intelligent engineers, excellent managers from UK. I think UK needs to consume less, lower their taxes and get to work and may be export a thing or 2, other than the financial innovations.

They do not manufacture anything any more. Tourism is very expensive. The financial system is a drain on the economy. They still have the oil and the insurance giants, oil companies, the best race courses, Oxord, Cambridge, Eaton, London. All is not lost yet.

 

[ashatet]

Quote from ashatet:

There is only 1 main problem with UK which is similar to what we have in USA. People want to do nothing but be managers, entertainers, and bureaucrats.

I visited UK in 2003-2004 time frame and I was very confused. I could not understand that a society that works so little lives large like that. Most teens are spoiled and expect that the world owes them. Most of the kids seem to be growing up to be actors, singers and entertainers in general. Having said that, I have met and worked with some very intelligent engineers, excellent managers from UK. I think UK needs to consume less, lower their taxes and get to work and may be export a thing or 2, other than the financial innovations.

They do not manufacture anything any more. Tourism is very expensive. The financial system is a drain on the economy. They still have the oil and the insurance giants, oil companies, the best race courses, Oxord, Cambridge, Eaton, London. All is not lost yet.

Did I mention that in summer time, England country side is like heaven on earth. Beautiful, and of those English Gardens and English Breakfasts.

 

[Logic]

Quote from henry76:

dear logic ( what a wonderfull sense of irony ) it's about perspective , balance and truth , not nuerotic jumping to conclusions , the uk is quite literally "not finished", countries fortunes come and go , rather like currencies they go up and down , but untill they are no longer there they are not finished , yes in your mind they maybe finished , but your mind makes george bush look like a geniuse, and a sane one at that !

I'm surprised you were able to glean that much about me from just one comment. If that's really how you see it, all the more power to you.