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Is the European Union doomed?
- Thread starter jficquette
- Start date
Quote from Jayford:
how do you figure?
they were only 15 years removed from WW I when Hitler came to power. they aren't even close to the same nation now, and still deeply ashamed of their actions in WW II.
you have no idea what you are talking about.
Hey idiot, go read your history books. Germany was stripped of itsl military after ww1. If a country without military is not pacifist then I don't know is.
Hitler gained power in a vacuum and in a country with no military of substance.
If Europe falls apart there stands to be a vaccum created. Vacuums are great for tryants to come to power.
Europe has a history of War and its only a matter of time before another breaks out.
Bosnia is a good place for it to start and I hope America decides its time that Europe took care of its own messes.
Quote from jficquette:
Hey idiot, go read your history books. Germany was stripped of itsl military after ww1. If a country without military is not pacifist then I don't know is.
Hey moron, a country is pacifist when they don't WANT to fight, not when their military has been stripped from them. Definition of pacifist: "strongly and actively opposed to conflict, especially war".
Germany has been extremely anti war for over 60 years, and there has been zero evidence this is changing. Makes no sense whatsoever to worry about another Hitler.
By your logic, Japan is the country to worry about. They were a warrior race for over a thousand years, so even though their constitution won't even permit them to send their troops over seas, they are due for a war.
Jay
PS, good job for making this thread personal. Prick!
Quote from Ivanovich:
I've been saying this for years now. You cannot have one central bank trying to instill monetary policy on a collective economic system that has entirely different micro economical facets.
Excellent article.
Exactly. I've been saying the same thing. Its amazing its lasted this long.
Good call here. Bernard Connolly (author of the book I mentioned earlier in this thread) has some comments that support this view.quote from Jayford:
Back to the topic. I am surprised the euro has lasted this long. Giving up control of your monetary tools to keep an economy chugging along is just asking for trouble. Either Spain, Italy, or Greece will bail in the next European downturn I bet. Rates are always too low for these guys.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/ma...008/08/15/cneuro115.xml&CMP=ILC-mostviewedboxBernard Connolly, global strategist at Banque AIG, said the eurozone faces possible disintegration unless there is a fiscal bail-out from Germany that matches â in sheer scale â Berlinâs Versailles reparations payments after the First World War. âThe bursting of the EMU credit bubble seems imminent, and will reveal current account imbalances among euro area countries as extremely dangerous. The medium-term feasibility of the euro area in its current form must be open to very considerable doubt,â he said.
Spain needs a devaluation of 30pc and Greece needs 40pc to restore balance to their economies after suffering a major loss of unit labour competitiveness. The current account deficit is 10pc of GDP in Spain, and 14pc in Greece.
Mr Connolly said the combination of collapsing demand in southern Europe and a slide in the external value of the euro now means that the EMU bloc may now start to export the effects of its troubles to the rest of the world, making it harder to bring the credit crisis to an end.
Lol, that sounds like you are recommending us a completely unbiased work of analysis on the European state of affairs. Why dont we also listen to the unbiased view of what Osama and the Iranian leader have to say about the U.S. ? I think thats a pretty fair comparison.
Despite political quarrels and problems in the housing market in a very few select European countries (and please dont include the U.K. as you happily counted them out in your comments below) I conclude that Europe stands on way sturdier legs than a lot of doom-sayers like to pain the picture. Sure, there is lots of work ahead but who expected it to be an easy ride to make countries of so different cultures agree on certain economic agendas. Some countries such as Ireland seem to be a little arrogant at the moment, just around the time when they for the first time got to enjoy economic prosperity (who knows how long it lasts), thinking they can go it all alone. Sure, until their own bubble bursts and they start crying for help which they rejected prior. And if some countries really decide this is not the right deal for them then nobody forces anybody. Do business on your own but dont count on help when you need it next time. Countries such as Germany and France among others have gone out of their way and spent billions of Euros to support countries such as Spain. Spain until 10-15 years ago was an economic nobody with no developed housing market, no functioning financial system, beaurocratic filth as thick as it gets until they were forced to clean up which was a requirement for Eu aid.
Make no mistake, Europe is far from being at the brink of collapse. Inflation is managable, low growth rates is something the most powerful EU countries have dealt with many times before and despite a macro slow down and some select local housing market turbulances all is business as usual. I am not saying we are not going to witness a slow down but declaring the end of the EU and its currency is ludicrous and completely without merit.
Its funny that your below criticism comes from someone standing right insight a burning house. If any spot in geographical Europe should really worry us then its the U.K. market at the moment.
Despite political quarrels and problems in the housing market in a very few select European countries (and please dont include the U.K. as you happily counted them out in your comments below) I conclude that Europe stands on way sturdier legs than a lot of doom-sayers like to pain the picture. Sure, there is lots of work ahead but who expected it to be an easy ride to make countries of so different cultures agree on certain economic agendas. Some countries such as Ireland seem to be a little arrogant at the moment, just around the time when they for the first time got to enjoy economic prosperity (who knows how long it lasts), thinking they can go it all alone. Sure, until their own bubble bursts and they start crying for help which they rejected prior. And if some countries really decide this is not the right deal for them then nobody forces anybody. Do business on your own but dont count on help when you need it next time. Countries such as Germany and France among others have gone out of their way and spent billions of Euros to support countries such as Spain. Spain until 10-15 years ago was an economic nobody with no developed housing market, no functioning financial system, beaurocratic filth as thick as it gets until they were forced to clean up which was a requirement for Eu aid.
Make no mistake, Europe is far from being at the brink of collapse. Inflation is managable, low growth rates is something the most powerful EU countries have dealt with many times before and despite a macro slow down and some select local housing market turbulances all is business as usual. I am not saying we are not going to witness a slow down but declaring the end of the EU and its currency is ludicrous and completely without merit.
Its funny that your below criticism comes from someone standing right insight a burning house. If any spot in geographical Europe should really worry us then its the U.K. market at the moment.
Quote from nevadan:
Yes.
For a good look inside the shaky EU see if you can get a copy of Bernard Connelly's book The Rotten Heart of Europe: The dirty war for Europe's money. He was a state economist for the British government and was privy to many of the key players and events leading up to the EU. For his efforts he was sacked and dragged through the legal system and his book effectively banned.
http://www.internetional.se/emucon.html
You will have to get your copy used since it is verboten. Some of the economics in the book are a little work to get through, but other parts of it that deal with the personalities involved read like a novel.
I am admittedly not very prescient, but I see a massive backlash coming to free trade, and a new-fangled isolationism welling up from the commoners - all over the world.
This is why CAFTA is in serious trouble.
And this is why it will be a political death sentence to propose a North American Union now, or probably within each of out lifetimes.
This is why CAFTA is in serious trouble.
And this is why it will be a political death sentence to propose a North American Union now, or probably within each of out lifetimes.
For your own education please check out the precise definition of "socialism" or "socialist system". You wont find any in the EU as it would be in disagreement with the EU charta. But you are welcome to term some of your "systems" a "social market economy". Its funny that there are still people on this globe (to my amusement mostly situated in the U.S. ) who still enjoy to argue with "we" and "they" and "us" and "them" on country levels. I fear to say that some of us somehow have missed the train. We have long since entered a new era. Think a bit more macro/global. Its not the capitalist vs communists anymore ;-) Ease up brothers!!!
Quote from jficquette:
Germany was pacifist when Hitler came to power. Currently pacifist countries with a history of war and agression are the ones that have the most risk.
The Europeans (save England) have no backbone and their socialist system is built on a house of cards.