Is the Bund one of the most difficult contracts to trade?

[fecal_tdr]

Quote from John47:

Excellent post. If you watch any big cme markets you will see guys doing this with one lots all day long, seeing who is on the other side. I had heard a month or so ago they were going to be doing away w/ the broker number, or whatever its called that lets you see who's on the other side...I'm not sure what happened to that. It could actually be good for locals, cause paper knowing when we're long or short is more dangerous than it is helpful for us to know if they're buying or selling. At least in my product.

cheers

The CME (and CBOT) are supposedly doing away with those messages starting july 2nd to improve anonymity. I have my doubts though, and I think that some big traders will still find ways to see counterparty, especially if they work at a firm that also clears.

Fake orders are pretty much the norm now in any interest rate product. A lot of it is automated spreaders, and in the benchmark contracts, its large locals or hedge funds trying to take all the money from the locals.

 

[0008]

Quote from Arbitrageur:

Mostly yeah, the flipper does his flips across the bund and the bobl (and sometimes the shatz, or all three at once)

most spreaders are looking to take 1 tick from either or both of the spread legs - traders (and I am certain its not one guy) who flip are deliberately trying to get spreaders offside on one or both legs so that they have to pay up a tick and fill the flipper on the other side of the bid/ask.

Sometimes a flipper will flip several prices one after the other to shake out any traders who can take the pain of a price or two on a spread.

Most spreaders are trading hundreds of contracts at a clip, so a price or two paying up the bid/ask spread can be expensive - hence all the complaints.

Can I say spread trading is not as low-risk as those guys who promote it?

 

[Arbitrageur]

you can say that. any kind of trading is risky, but by definition futures spreading is somewhat lower risk that plain old directional outrights since you are hedged both long and short at the same time in two very tightly correlated instruments - and it IS a legitimate way to make a good living if you know how to spread, I know some great bund/bobl spreaders who can make four figures daily with comparatively low risk and drawdowns.

Having said that, any trader, spreader or not can and will lose money by the truckload if they dont know exactly what they are doing.

 

[0008]

Quote from Arbitrageur:

you can say that. any kind of trading is risky, but by definition futures spreading is somewhat lower risk that plain old directional outrights since you are hedged both long and short at the same time in two very tightly correlated instruments - and it IS a legitimate way to make a good living if you know how to spread, I know some great bund/bobl spreaders who can make four figures daily with comparatively low risk and drawdowns.

Having said that, any trader, spreader or not can and will lose money by the truckload if they dont know exactly what they are doing.

Wow! If so, can you tell how and where to learn spread trading!


Thanks!

 

[Arbitrageur]

try approaching any of the london arcades:
http://www.trade2win.com/traderpedia/Trading_Arcade_Index