Is the average person barbaric and evil?

[FeenixRizin]

Quote from stu:

If the average person is barbaric and the average person is religious ....erm

most religions preach peace ... (albeit, peace is a relative term)

If the average person was not religious, how barbaric would the average person be?

The most barbaric leaders made strides to kill off the notion of the divine, or usurp it altogether. The idea that religion is behind all wars is somewhat naive, and the typical atheist should recognize it.


Religion has been the greatest civilizing force in human history. (In my, admittedly limited, opinion)

 

[aegis]

You likely live in a country where hundreds of thousands of Native Americans were slaughtered by early colonists. Do you do anything about it?

What about the Rape of Nanking, or the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombs, or the recent Iraq war?

As nutmeg stated, people are angry, as they should be. They have been exploited by a big-business run government that no longer acts in the best interest of the commoners, and vermin like Madoff are symbols of such.

Peaceful protest never helped accomplish much of anything. Only a violent uprising among the common people can truly change the way in which a government operates. Just as forest fires are biologically necessary to maintain healthy ecosystems for later generations, violence towards those who exploited the system is also healthy and necessary.

It also sends an important message to those in positions of power -- "Don't fuck with us!".

 

[stu]

Quote from stu:
If the average person is barbaric and the average person is religious ....erm

Quote from FeenixRizin:


If the average person was not religious, how barbaric would the average person be?

I don't think you can successfully argue a second hypothetical correlation disproves the first apparent one.

Quote from FeenixRizin:

The idea that religion is behind all wars is somewhat naive, and the typical atheist should recognize it.

On average that might well be the case, if the average person is religious.
The idea that religion is not historically a source of barbaric conflict is disingenuous. Perhaps the typical theist would do better in realizing that.

 

[dtrader98]

Quote from Cutten:

A few posts on ET recently made me revisit this pet theme of mine. In short, several people on here have advocated kidnap, torture, and lynch-murder of a financial adviser for making bad (but not fraudulent) investment recommendations. Others have recommended anything ranging from total asset seizure to outright murder of people, without trial or charge, just for being relatives of Bernard Madoff. Almost no one other than myself has raised an eyebrow at any of this.

In other words, a lot of people here (including some regular/"respected" posters) have no respect for the presumption of innocence, or the necessity of showing proof of a crime before handing out punishment, and some of them think that actions completely lacking any bad motive are deserving of a violent death by lynch mob. In the light of this, the many barbaric episodes from human history are easily explicable - many normal people are not just stupid and ill-informed, but barbaric and evil too.

Am I being too harsh here, or do these people deserve a taste of their own medicine? I wonder how any of them would react if they suffered the same fate as they are prescribing for others.

See Milgram experiment. It's typically appeal to authority that drives the lynch mob to action.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fyrH9umZ8kc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fyrH9umZ8kc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[Eight]

Quote from stu:

If the average person is barbaric and the average person is religious ....erm

Sweet and Sour Sauce, strive to bring out the sweet side and life is a lot easier..

I read books about criminals a lot... my dad loved those guys, hung out with them, well he was one I suppose... so I'm reading about what some of these guys actually do... read up on the Ice Man, he killed 200 people and his whole arrest record was two road rage incidents... so you read up on these guys and you realize that the average barbaric talker has not EVEN the stomach for doing what they say... people might be evil in their hearts, sure, we all are, some to a very small extent and some of us to a much greater extent but few of us are really up to barbarism..

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from FeenixRizin:

most religions preach peace ... (albeit, peace is a relative term)

If the average person was not religious, how barbaric would the average person be?

The most barbaric leaders made strides to kill off the notion of the divine, or usurp it altogether. The idea that religion is behind all wars is somewhat naive, and the typical atheist should recognize it.


Religion has been the greatest civilizing force in human history. (In my, admittedly limited, opinion)

Steven Weinberg: With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

 

[FeenixRizin]

Quote from stu:

I don't think you can successfully argue a second hypothetical correlation disproves the first apparent one.



On average that might well be the case, if the average person is religious.
The idea that religion is not historically a source of barbaric conflict is disingenuous. Perhaps the typical theist would do better in realizing that.

even the atheist and religious can agree on what causes conflict ...



the more relevant question is what can possibly avoid it