Is something not right?

[ByLoSellHi]

Quote from Sandybestdog:

Is it just me or is everything out of wack here? For 8 years the Republicans have run up our national debt by 5 trillion dollars. We did nothing to fix the 50 trillion dollar Social Security tidal wave coming our way. We instead never saw a spending bill we didn’t like. How much was the unpaid prescription drug bill? 600 billion I think. We created a huge Department of Homeland Security that nobody likes or can figure out what they actually do. Of course there was the mother of all useless spending, 12 billions a month on a war that we should be out of. The Republicans have been fierce about not cutting spending on the war. If someone ever tried to cut off funding to end the war, their patriotism was certainly questioned. Meanwhile we funded all of this through tax cuts, a lot of which went to the rich. Nothing wrong with tax cuts, but you have to cut spending to make up for it.

Over the past 8 years the little guy has gotten absolutely hammered. Where the average family’s income has gone down $1000 and their cost of living has gone up $5000. Where a couple of trillion dollars in bailouts have been handed out to evil company’s with hardley a second thought.

Now a stimulus package has just passed without a single Republican vote. All of a sudden they care about deficit spending. They are relentless about spending billions on the military industrial complex and wars that profit the rich at the expense of the poor, but all of a sudden when it comes to giving the little guy a few hundred bucks that will directly help them, they’re questioning the economics of whether it will work. You don’t need a Harvard MBA to tell you that giving people checks who spend 100% of their incomes is going to benefit the economy more than spending billions on tanks and planes so our military can go all around the world and tell other countries what to do. $500 of Social Security and Medicare waivers is going to help me. That’s not wasted money. I’m not going to see any of my Social Security anyways, so who cares that I didn’t pay for it? Is there a lot of pork in this bill? Of course. Is it the best way of doing things? No. But I just don’t understand how these Republicans can be so adamantly against it after what they put us through for 8 years. The Republicans are really losing it. I am ashamed of what my party has done to this country. They really need to reexamine their priorities. Why are we paying to bomb bridges in Iraq, then rebuild them, meanwhile our bridges are falling apart here?

Epic post!

Should be a sticky for Republicans Anonymous!!!


I didn't leave the GOP; the GOP, pushed off the cliff of absurdity by loud yet intellectually tepid populists (think Gingrich, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter), left me!

 

[Sandybestdog]

Quote from Arnie:
How do you create jobs? It’s pretty simple you have to find ways to take from the rich and give it to the middle and lower class. Think about it this way. For every million dollars Warren Buffett has, that could have provided 20 people with with a good $50,000 job for one year.

So THAT's how jobs are created!

Anyway you put it, I don’t see how job creation isn’t anything but a redistribution of money. That’s pretty much how everything is. If you want to make $1, you have to go make it from someone else. It’s a zero sum game. The goal needs to be using the market to narrow the rich/poor gap, not widen it.

 

[Sandybestdog]

Quote from Fractals 'R Us:
So you got your junk mail early.. I'm proud of you!! Try shutting off the junk mail to save some trees... the Post Orifice can't do it, it would reduce work for union people. Where in the constitution does it say that Unions are to dictate to the Federal Government what they deliver via the mail?

Dude what’s your beef with the Post Office? You can send a letter anywhere in the country for 42 cents in 3-4 days. That beats the private market UPS and FedEx any day. Although they are usually better for large packages.

Something doesn’t need to be in the Constitution. Laws need to comply with the Constitution There is nowhere in the Consitution that prohibits Unions, so Congress establishing them is completely legal.

 

[Sandybestdog]

Quote from ByLoSellHi:
Epic post!

Should be a sticky for Republicans Anonymous!!!

I didn't leave the GOP; the GOP, pushed off the cliff of absurdity by loud yet intellectually tepid populists (think Gingrich, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter), left me!

You’re stealing my idea. I was going to try to print up a bunch of t-shirts that said,

I didn’t leave the Republican party, the Republican party left me.

 

[karol88]

Quote from Sandybestdog:



How do you create jobs? It�s pretty simple you have to find ways to take from the rich and give it to the middle and lower class. Think about it this way. For every million dollars Warren Buffett has, that could have provided 20 people with with a good $50,000 job for one year. Now obviously the Socialistic approach won�t work. That would encourage non production and hoarding and evasion. So in the end you just need more competition to hold the company�s accountable. Does anybody think we really have that now? We live in an era where you don�t compete with the other guy, you buy them out or merge. In another year or two BAC and JPM will own practically every financial institution. This is not good for America.

we just had lots of competition (retail), don't you think? All the offers, everything is on sale, anytime...that's a sign of competition. ...and how to win one? either to be the best or the cheapest...
many stores did the later...cheap labor(immigrants) + millions of cheap goods made in China: all that won’t create new jobs....it will only encourage more spending (look, it's on sale!)

If America didn't mind to make China mad, a temp. ban on Chinese goods would be one solution to create new jobs. Goods will be more expensive, we will simply have to get used to buy less. It would help US GDP too.

Quote from Sandybestdog:


In the past 8 years do you think it�s gotten harder or easier to start a business and compete with the rich? Competition is a thing of the past.

Anybody, even the immigrants were able to start a business here, anybody (until recently) got a loan without major problems....do you think something like this is possible in any other country in the world? hell no!

Quote from Sandybestdog:


Oh and Starbucks is generally a decent place to work. They just opened another store here in Gaithersburg. I guess that makes 5 in a 2 mile area. Closing those stores will cost jobs. Every 3 months, employees are able to purchase stock at a 15% discount off of the price at the beginning or end of the quarter, whichever is lower. Although, unless you dumped it right away, that has turned out as a losing strategy.

if they keep opening more stores, they won't make any profits = no more jobs! and they sure won't cut the prices either.
There is no need for 3 stores within a walking distance...I can't make up my mind which one to go to
that's not necessarily...there's only so much coffee you can drink...

 

[Cutten]

Welcome to conservative statism. Republicans, like most right-wing parties, have a large chunk of people who believe in welfare and socialism for the military, big business, and finance. After all, that's who votes for them. So does small business, but small business can't afford lobbyists.

The government is 10% about national defence, 10% about law and order, and 80% about robbing Peter to pay Paul. Every so often the leaders change and it's Paul's turn to get robbed. Plus ca change.

 

[Specterx]

Quote from Sandybestdog:

Anyway you put it, I don’t see how job creation isn’t anything but a redistribution of money. That’s pretty much how everything is. If you want to make $1, you have to go make it from someone else. It’s a zero sum game. The goal needs to be using the market to narrow the rich/poor gap, not widen it.

Unfortunately I think this isn't something you can do with government policies. In America companies take on debt and dis-invest so they can pay high dividends (look at what all the banks were paying out through mid-late 2008), buy back stock, and give huge comp packages to the small circle of business elites who sit on each others' boards and take their turns in the executive chair. Everybody can get away with it because everybody else does it. Productivity increases are thereby channeled into a few hands.

It isn't clear how 'using the market' or government policy could change this situation; it's a more fundamental issue. In Western Europe productivity gains and income are much more evenly distributed. To some extent this is because of unions, laws, taxes and whatnot, but the policy differences aren't nearly as massive as we're often led to believe. Mostly it seems to be a cultural thing. Companies and boards just make the choice to pay employees more, give fat year end bonuses, and pay management and shareholders less than they do here. Here it seems like everyone's trying to make a quick buck and run: tech entrepreneurs just want to sell out to Google, private equity just wants to strip assets and take the cash, bankers and HF managers just want to ride the markets and skim OPM then bail when the economy turns, and so on.

It's also the reason why (up to last year at least) half the college grads in this country just wanted to major in finance or business, work for Goldman for ten years and retire at 35, rather than build new, original businesses, become an engineer or a researcher, things like that. 'Course coming from me, that's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black...

 

[Sandybestdog]

Quote from karol88:
we just had lots of competition (retail), don't you think? All the offers, everything is on sale, anytime...that's a sign of competition. ...and how to win one? either to be the best or the cheapest...many stores did the later...cheap labor(immigrants) + millions of cheap goods made in China: all that won’t create new jobs....it will only encourage more spending (look, it's on sale!)

If America didn't mind to make China mad, a temp. ban on Chinese goods would be one solution to create new jobs. Goods will be more expensive, we will simply have to get used to buy less. It would help US GDP too.

The other side of the story is never mentioned. If we didn’t have everything made so cheaply in other countries, that means there would be more higher paying jobs here. So yes everything would cost more, but people would have better paying jobs to pay for it. Plus it would improve efficiency because people will produce more when they get paid more. Also unemployment would be lower, which is good for every aspect of the economy.

Personally this holiday season I didn’t see that much on sale. I kept hearing about buy 1 get 2 free deals, but I never saw it. I don’t think spending is slowing quite as much as people think. People still have money, just fewer of them and not as much.

You have to be careful when you talk about bans on imports. Remember China is dependent on the US for so much of its economy, just like we are dependent on them for cheap goods and buying our debt. If we decided to limit that, they might decide to sell dollars, and that could really hurt us.

Quote from karol88:
Anybody, even the immigrants were able to start a business here, anybody (until recently) got a loan without major problems....do you think something like this is possible in any other country in the world? hell no!

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. I heard China is a great place to start a business now. Dubai is booming. Anyways why is taking out a loan always assumed as the only way to start a business? Why can’t people save cash anymore to start endeavors? Well because the powers that be make is so difficult to. It’s so expensive to do everything nowadays, loans are the only way to achieve anything. They want to keep it that way.

America is losing its appeal. It’s turning into a place where the established focus on keeping it that way instead of keeping what they have through market forces.

Quote from karol88:
if they keep opening more stores, they won't make any profits = no more jobs! and they sure won't cut the prices either.
There is no need for 3 stores within a walking distance...I can't make up my mind which one to go to
that's not necessarily...there's only so much coffee you can drink...

Well obviously they wouldn’t have opened that many stores if they didn’t feel that they could make a profit. There is a gas station on every street corner. They must be making enough to justify so many locations.

 

[Sandybestdog]

Quote from Cutten:
Welcome to conservative statism. Republicans, like most right-wing parties, have a large chunk of people who believe in welfare and socialism for the military, big business, and finance. After all, that's who votes for them. So does small business, but small business can't afford lobbyists.

The government is 10% about national defence, 10% about law and order, and 80% about robbing Peter to pay Paul. Every so often the leaders change and it's Paul's turn to get robbed. Plus ca change.

Exactly. You’re right on. Dems redistribute to the poor. Repubs redistribute to the causes you mentioned. I’m not an economist, but I’d say corporate greed has done away with the legitimacy of supply side economics. Giving huge tax cuts to corporations and the rich and hoping it will “trickle down” is absurd. They will do what’s in their best interest. Look at the Bush tax cuts. They sure didn’t help the little guy much.

Remember, and correct me if I’m wrong, you can get asset rich while paying little taxes. If you give most of your net operating profit to the employees and expanding the business, you will pay little taxes. But during that time, you are building a larger asset and net worth base that you can capitilize on later.

 

[Sandybestdog]

Quote from Specterx:
Unfortunately I think this isn't something you can do with government policies. In America companies take on debt and dis-invest so they can pay high dividends (look at what all the banks were paying out through mid-late 2008), buy back stock, and give huge comp packages to the small circle of business elites who sit on each others' boards and take their turns in the executive chair. Everybody can get away with it because everybody else does it. Productivity increases are thereby channeled into a few hands.

It isn't clear how 'using the market' or government policy could change this situation; it's a more fundamental issue. In Western Europe productivity gains and income are much more evenly distributed. To some extent this is because of unions, laws, taxes and whatnot, but the policy differences aren't nearly as massive as we're often led to believe. Mostly it seems to be a cultural thing. Companies and boards just make the choice to pay employees more, give fat year end bonuses, and pay management and shareholders less than they do here. Here it seems like everyone's trying to make a quick buck and run: tech entrepreneurs just want to sell out to Google, private equity just wants to strip assets and take the cash, bankers and HF managers just want to ride the markets and skim OPM then bail when the economy turns, and so on.

It's also the reason why (up to last year at least) half the college grads in this country just wanted to major in finance or business, work for Goldman for ten years and retire at 35, rather than build new, original businesses, become an engineer or a researcher, things like that. 'Course coming from me, that's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black...

Very interesting perspective. So you think that the market dynamics are the same in Europe? They are just less greedy there and try to look out for the common good? I guess I’d like to believe that, but wouldn’t that go against human nature? If we forced redistribution would that hinder productivity? Do you think a business model like you mentioned could garner traction in the US and take market share from those who don’t follow it?

Personally, I am having a hard time thinking of one white or black person I know that owns their own business. Nobody want to do anything anymore. Nobody wants to stick it to the man. They want to work for him! I just don’t get it. The corporations are really taking over. It’s very hard to keep going when all around you have no ambition. I am 24 and have had a couple of small businesses. They have all failed, but I’m going to keep trying. I thought of a website idea and am trying to work on that now. We’ll see.