Is scalping 3 handles/12 ticks on NQ feasible in Live market environment?

A

aegis_eq

Hi, everybody!

I realize this might seem like an incredibly stupid question for seasoned traders; but, I am relatively new to daytrading—have only been practicing for about two years on Paper Trading on TV and Funded Accounts with Topstep and Apex. I have a very limited amount of exposure to the actual Live market conditions.

I have a very simple question. One of my best models is scalping NQ for 3 handles (12 ticks). I have had success with this model trading it on Funded SIM Accounts with Tradovate; but, I am beginning to wonder how the Live market conditions would differ from what the SIM environment offers. Over 95% of my fills happen with price moving past the Limit Orders, so very very few taps (although they do occasionally happen and Tradovate can be quite generous with them).

Is 12 ticks enough of a breadth for the Live market to consistently give quality fills where price moves past the Limit Order by at least 1 tick? 12 ticks is not too short for an instrument as liquid as NQ to give consistent fills in the Live market, right? I realize I'd be giving slightly more than 1 tick to the broker/CME with each contract—that's not an issue. Model is built on taking about 10-11 ticks home anyway, since Tradovate SIM does have fees included in it. I am wondering about just the general process of executing orders in the Live market. I'm not tripping, right? 12 ticks is enough on NQ?

It almost makes no sense for me to be asking this, since, in my mind, NQ is a hyper-liquid instrument; but, it seems like there is a general anti-scalping sentiment growing amongst the prop firms, so I was wondering how the Live market would differ from the SIM environment that Tradovate provides.
 
The best way IMO to try this in sim is with CQG software, preferably CQG Q trader

It is the closest thing I have seen to live trading as far as fills and mechanics.

Personally I think 12 ticks is possible for VERY disciplined traders with semi automated DOM ( sends limits and/ or stops right away)
 
Thank you for your reply, Ilan.

I send Limit to enter and Limit to exit as a bracket pair since the Take Profit is a preset tick value in the model. Stop Loss Order is set manually since invalidation is market structure/PD array dependent and there is quite often not enough time to program in both. About 30-40% of the time, my scalp trades actually close in profit before I manage to move the mouse to intended Stop Loss level and execute the 2-5 mouse clicks necessary to place the order following my workflow technique in Tradingview.

Got a reply on this on Reddit where another gentleman--who took the same route from Tradovate SIM to Live market--assured me that Tradovate SIM is top notch quality, and that he noticed no difference going from SIM to Live in his career. You thinking that it is the discipline that is the deciding factor here assures me that he is correct, and that I have nothing to worry about. I was asking solely about the technical side of Live market orders being filled compared to SIM orders being filled.

Thank you again for taking your time to reply. I hope you have a wonderful day!
 
aegis_eq said:
I have a very simple question. One of my best models is scalping NQ for 3 handles (12 ticks). I have had success with this model trading it on Funded SIM Accounts with Tradovate; but, I am beginning to wonder how the Live market conditions would differ from what the SIM environment offers.
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I know what I am going to say is ridiculously obvious, but can't you try this with one MNQ in live markets? That would put minimal capital at risk to test live fills. Granted volume on MNQ is higher than NQ, but I think you are going to find out pretty quickly if there is a path forward.
 
Coin Flip said:
I know what I am going to say is ridiculously obvious, but can't you try this with one MNQ in live markets? That would put minimal capital at risk to test live fills. Granted volume on MNQ is higher than NQ, but I think you are going to find out pretty quickly if there is a path forward.
More...
Agree. That will be the best forward testing......
 
aegis_eq said:
Hi, everybody!

I realize this might seem like an incredibly stupid question for seasoned traders; but, I am relatively new to daytrading—have only been practicing for about two years on Paper Trading on TV and Funded Accounts with Topstep and Apex. I have a very limited amount of exposure to the actual Live market conditions.

I have a very simple question. One of my best models is scalping NQ for 3 handles (12 ticks). I have had success with this model trading it on Funded SIM Accounts with Tradovate; but, I am beginning to wonder how the Live market conditions would differ from what the SIM environment offers. Over 95% of my fills happen with price moving past the Limit Orders, so very very few taps (although they do occasionally happen and Tradovate can be quite generous with them).

Is 12 ticks enough of a breadth for the Live market to consistently give quality fills where price moves past the Limit Order by at least 1 tick? 12 ticks is not too short for an instrument as liquid as NQ to give consistent fills in the Live market, right? I realize I'd be giving slightly more than 1 tick to the broker/CME with each contract—that's not an issue. Model is built on taking about 10-11 ticks home anyway, since Tradovate SIM does have fees included in it. I am wondering about just the general process of executing orders in the Live market. I'm not tripping, right? 12 ticks is enough on NQ?

It almost makes no sense for me to be asking this, since, in my mind, NQ is a hyper-liquid instrument; but, it seems like there is a general anti-scalping sentiment growing amongst the prop firms, so I was wondering how the Live market would differ from the SIM environment that Tradovate provides.
More...



Your Question: Is it feasible?
Answer: Yes, it is.


Better Question: Can you do it?
Answer: Probably not (on consistent basis).


Question: How many people here on ET think they could do it?
Answer: 90%


Better Question: How many people here on ET could actually do it?
Answer: 5%
 
Just go live with 1NQ for a week. Skip the Micro. You will answer:

1) how many fills you miss
2) how making up for the fill, after the miss, impacts the PL (Critical info)
3) how much efforts it takes and a hint on sustainability week after week.
4) probably a few other issues to be addressed.

Take a lot of notes. Fix the issues and then repeat. Simple.

Get in the game! But do it with a plan.
 
The problem with using MNQ for live "testing", PARTICULARLY with a scalp strategy, is commission/fees. Depending on YOUR commission structure, exchange membership, etc, it is likely 3 (or more) ticks will be needed to attain a BE trade. That's a high bar to overcome for a scalping strategy imo. Contrast with NQ where only 1 tick is needed to attain BE.
 
Coin Flip said:
I know what I am going to say is ridiculously obvious, but can't you try this with one MNQ in live markets? That would put minimal capital at risk to test live fills. Granted volume on MNQ is higher than NQ, but I think you are going to find out pretty quickly if there is a path forward.
More...
C'mon, don't rock the boat. What he wants is reassurance that he won't lose money. :sneaky:
 
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