Is Obama a Muslim in the eyes of our enemy?

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

All the religions have flaws, because they are headed by badly flawed individuals with their own agendas for power over others.

Your analysis is what particular splinter in the eyes of a particular religion are of greater or worse is entirely based on the the type of log in your own eye.

Extremism is to be found in every religion, and at the current moment in time the extremists in the Islamic religion are the most violent on the whole.

I have read enough comments from extremists Christians who want to nuke all Islamic countries to know that extremism is not limited to one country or one religion.

Extremist and dogmatic thinking is the real enemy, and the seeds of that style of thought are on the verge of germination in nearly every mainstream religion...as extremism is generally matched with equal and opposite extremism as a solution.

Quote from Rearden Metal:

Of all the modern mainstream religions, Islam is the most badly flawed.

 

[LodeRunner]

Quote from oktiri:

I'm a MUSLIM and quite proud of it.
the 99.999 % you don't hear about on foxnews. so listen,

Obama is not a Muslim, being muslim start with saying the shahada (There is no God but God, Muhammad is the messenger of God).
Obama proclaimed to be Christian, fine with me, fine with us.

So NO, he is not a muslim in our eyes
he's not an apostate either.
He's a Chrisitan, fine with us.

I have Chrisitan friends, jews, atheists, agnostics.

Stop spreading lies and pontificating about stuff you don't know.

Any questions ?

You speak for all Muslims, do you?

Do you believe in / live under sharia law?

Guess I need to add a disclaimer to every single reply: not talking about Obama's belief's, not talking about mainstream/tolerant Islam's belief, I'm talking about fundamentalist sharia-only Islam.

 

[Rearden Metal]

Quote from oktiri:

I give the crown jewel to Catholicism, in terms of weirdness and logic suppression .
most people know about Islam through that asshole bin Laden and Foxnews. Grab a mainstream book, by Karen Armstrong, and educate yourself.

Percentage of people expressing "a lot of confidence" or "some confidence" in bin Laden:

In the Palestinian territories: 71%
Morocco: 49%
Indonesia:58%
Saudi Arabia: 'Almost half'</b>[/color]


http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/08/poll.binladen

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9957-2003Jun3?language=printer


EDIT: More recent data, from last year (Includes the 2003 data, <i>in italics</i>, for comparison purposes):

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=792757>

Regarding the above Pew survey data:
Muslim Arabs compose the bulk of the world's terrorists, yet Pew
purposely picked the most Liberal & moderate of Muslim countries- and only one (Jordan) has an overwhelming Muslim Arab majority. The survey results from Lebanon are worthless, as the Lebanese population is divided about 70/30 between Muslims and Christians- and these groups live mostly segregated from each other. From the poll results, I think you can guess in which area of Lebanon this poll was conducted.

No survey results from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen or Syria- The places where the most Muslim Arabs (and Islamic terrorism supporters) can be found.

<b>Only 18% of Jordanians surveyed had absolutely no confidence in Al-Qaida. Both the Democrats & Republicans WISH they had as much support from the American people, as Bin Laden's terrorism has support from the Jordanian people!</b>

 

[oktiri]

Sharia means LAW in Arabic, it can be interpreted in different ways.
If you're asking me if I'm living with the Taliban, the answer is NO, but then the Taliban are 0.2 % of the general population and are repulsive to US as much as they are to YOU.

Well yes, use qualifiers like "extremists." or sickos, or MOFOs. something that underscores their very minority status within our community and our strong disapproval/ condemnation of them.

We don't call Timothy McVeigh an "American patriot." (as he claimed to be).

 

[oktiri]

Rearden,

I invite you to move your ass off your chair and visit a Muslim country (Jordan, Morocco, Egypt....)
You'd get a much better perspective.

These polls have 0 Credibility in my eyes. I FUCKING live here and know what I'm talking about.
Why do you think Al-Qaeda bombed Cafes in Morocco/ Jordan/ Egypt. Why would you BOMB places if you had popular support as your polls claim.

EDIT : polls might be reflecting frustration towards the US AFTER the Irak invasion, that's when the opinion of the US soured, Still a bad opinion doesn't mean violence.

 

[trendlover]

Oktiri, you are saying 99% of muslim in the world are against jihad force? And the other 1% muslim are terrorists who believe jihad force is asked by thier god?

 

[Rearden Metal]

Quote from oktiri:

Rearden,

I invite you to move your ass off your chair and visit a Muslim country (Jordan, Morocco, Egypt....)
You'd get a much better perspective.

No one feels like telling him? Ok, fine- I'll do it:

Dude, I grew up in the Middle East. I've discussed politics & religion with hundreds of different captured Palestinian rebels. I've been through the sewers of Gaza City to the hills of rural Samarian villages.

I can think of one clear area of common ground between us, though: America is entangled in the Middle East, yet Americans have no fucking clue about the Middle East. Back when the Abu-Ghraib prison abuse scandal was in the headlines, how many times did you hear someone proclaim not to understand what all the fuss was about? "Big deal, so they had to wear panties on their heads- At least they're still alive", was the standard response. What Western society doesn't understand, is that to the Muslim Arab male, public humiliation & dishonor is a thousand times worse than the most painful of deaths.

We do have opposing views, but ignorance isn't behind any of the things I've said. Not this time.

 

[oktiri]

Dude,
I seriously don't give a rat's ass about your opinion about my religion. I'm not here to defend my beliefs in a trading forum or to anyone else. Religious matters are personal and very subjective.

I'm 1 person among 1.3 billion, there are more "Christians" in this world than Muslims and I'm sure you're all agree that 2 billion people do not share the same opinion, interpretation,exercise or understanding of their faith.


Just like there is tremendous diversity among American people (northern California vs south Carolina for ex), There is lots of different opinions in the Muslim world, if that thing even exists.
I'm just saying, I'd appreciate that a qualifier like "extremists" is used whenever you talk about the despicable people who choose terrorism and violence against civilians to further their POLITICAL agenda. That's it.

I can say with a lot of confidence, that Obama is not considered a Muslim nor an apostate.
In fact many Muslim Americans voted for GW Bush since they tend to be social conservatives.


I always caution my fellow friends in the Muslim world that the US is not "Sex and the city" and "Fox news." and to stop believing the Al-Jazeera propaganda crap. I'd appreciate if you could understand that the Muslim world is made of 1.3 billion very diverse people. and that the majority of them wish you no harm. They work and have families and love their neighbor......

That's it.

 

[oktiri]

Quote from trendlover:

Oktiri, you are saying 99% of muslim in the world are against jihad force? And the other 1% muslim are terrorists who believe jihad force is asked by thier god?

I'm saying that the 0.001 % that identify with Al-Qaeda have a political agenda that has nothing to do with religion, but use religion as a vehicle to try to attract to their lost cause.
Again, think Timothy McVeigh as a christian patriot. KKK as representing white people interests, black panthers as representing blacks, IRA as representing the interests of Irish people. NEOCONS as representing the interests of America.

I can point you to many areas of the Muslim world where Christian (Lebanon, Egypt, Syria) and Jewish (Morocco, Tunisia) communities thrived among a huge Muslim majority.

 

[trendlover]

Quote from oktiri:

I'm saying that the 0.001 % that identify with Al-Qaeda have a political agenda that has nothing to do with religion, but use religion as a vehicle to try to attract to their lost cause.

I can point you to many areas of the muslim world where Christian (Lebanon, Egypt, Syria) and Jewish (Morocco, Tunisia) communities thrived among a huge muslim majority.

I CHALLENGE yo to name ONE Christian nation (except of postwar modern America /Canada/ Europe ) where ANY Minority community managed to survive less alone thrive and multiply.

I am not against Muslim religion or Christian religion. I question how any religion use god to justify violence and war.