Is it realistic to average $17.50 a day trading YM with 3.5k ??

Quote from osorico:

1) It is proven that small accounts, when coupled with sound risk management and a proven profitable strategy can achieve far greater percentage returns than those of multi-million/billion dollar accounts. There are many differences between the two different account types, not just value.

2) Yes, ES offers liquidity. But have you ever traded it? Firstly you need to realize because of ES tic (.25), 9 out of 10 times price will need to move through a limit price for fill. Now then, you come at ES with 1K size during a low velocity low ferocity period, whether market or limit you will affect the price. Yes, it will be absorbed, but how much at what price(s)? Applies to entry and exit. A small retail trader, say 50 or less contracts, has a much greater chance of a)getting filled at one price, entry and exit and b) can employ more types of strategies and styles dependant or independant of velocity and ferocity. Remember, not all strategies are based on volume or volatility expansion.

3) Of course realistic goals are important. But they need to be challenging. I'll wager that when Tiger was a young lad, his coaches did not say "go for par +18 on this course". Or "go for 100 yd drives on the front nine and 150 yds on the back nine.".

Osorico

1) It is proven, or do you think so? Are you the living proof of it, having scored +80% or more consistently for over 5 years?

2) This is only really relevant when talking about ultra short scalping in the direction with the trend. Not the only game in town.

3) Agreed. Challenging, but not near impossible.
 
Quote from BJL:

1) It is proven, or do you think so? Are you the living proof of it, having scored +80% or more consistently for over 5 years?

2) This is only really relevant when talking about ultra short scalping in the direction with the trend. Not the only game in town.

3) Agreed. Challenging, but not near impossible.

So it seems you just want to argue...

1) It is proven. Whether or not I am included in the dataset is irrelevant.

2) Size is pertinent to all trade styles. There is a conditional relationship between accuracy and speed of execution and order size.

3) Can the mentally challenged be mentally challenged in challenging way? I guess not.

See you on the other side of my futures trades. :D

ByeBye
 
Quote from osorico:

So it seems you just want to argue...

1) It is proven. Whether or not I am included in the dataset is irrelevant.

2) Size is pertinent to all trade styles. There is a conditional relationship between accuracy and speed of execution and order size.

3) Can the mentally challenged be mentally challenged in challenging way? I guess not.

See you on the other side of my futures trades. :D

ByeBye

It seems you have a lot of one liners and little substance.

1) I take it as a no then. Any links to this proof? While the average pro trader makes a profit, the average amateur loses - that much is proven.

2) Longer term trades really aren't affected by 1-2 ticks in execution. I could trade several billion with my fixed income programme without any noticable effect.

Since I don't trade intraday equity futures ít's unlikely you'll see me on the other side of your trades. Which I guess is good for you as you'd have been wiped out multiple times if your PnL is the reverse of mine.

Good luck gambling. Be sure to say hi to the black swan.
 
Quote from BJL:



Since I don't trade intraday equity futures ít's unlikely you'll see me on the other side of your trades. Which I guess is good for you as you'd have been wiped out multiple times if your PnL is the reverse of mine.




LOL !! OK the truth finally comes out. This is pretty much exactly what we figured.
Another human being telling others whats possible or impossible about an endeavour he does not even participate in.
Gotta luv the typical ETer !!! :p
 
Count your profit by week, or by month. If your risk management is good, most of your money will be made in a few days out of the month when you can catch a good trend. Of course $17.50 a day (4 Dow points including commission) is realistic. But being new to futures .... try not to lose money and get over your jitters the first month, and then set your goal going forward.

And lol @ BJL ... plenty of traders have been successful long-term without needing 300k to get started
 
Quote from promagma:

Count your profit by week, or by month. If your risk management is good, most of your money will be made in a few days out of the month when you can catch a good trend. Of course $17.50 a day (4 Dow points including commission) is realistic. But being new to futures .... try not to lose money and get over your jitters the first month, and then set your goal going forward.

And lol @ BJL ... plenty of traders have been successful long-term without needing 300k to get started



Nice, one of the few Posts here that seems to hit it on the nose.

Look, I have a well written out plan for trading futures that I have developed in the last 4months. I know the object is to NOT lose money when first Live Trading.

Basically, I am going to concentrate on my specific setups and my risk mgt. policies that I have developed and just take it from there.

I can afford to lose this 3.5k and expect there is a possibility this will happen. I will chalk it up as tuition.

But honestly, I really DONT think I will blow my account.
I have cautious confidence and I will NOT go into Live trading already expecting to go broke.

IT WONT HAPPEN !! PERIOD.....And you fools who say it will or hoping it will I say lets put a wager on it.
I will take your arse to the bank !!!
Thats a F-ing promise !!! :eek:
 
Oh, boy, everybody gets this wrong:

Quote from opt789:

Balda had it right when he said the YM is about $65000, so are some of you guys saying that a good futures trader can't make $17.50/day or $17.5*250/$65k= 6.7% per year?

The full value of the YM contract is irrelevant.

The relevant part is the difference between the starting account (3.5K) and the intraday margin requirement (can be as low as $500).

That determines how long the trader can play....

It is not obvious though what should be counted as 100%. One can say the 3.5K other can argue for the $500....
 
Quote from Pekelo:

Oh, boy, everybody gets this wrong:



The full value of the YM contract is irrelevant.

The relevant part is the difference between the starting account (3.5K) and the intraday margin requirement (can be as low as $500).

That determines how long the trader can play....

It is not obvious though what should be counted as 100%. One can say the 3.5K other can argue for the $500....

Nice one. Your margin of safety (3500 - 500 = 3000) doesn't relate at all to the full value of the YM contract? So losing 3000 isn't easier on a 65000 contract than on a 5000 contract?
 
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