Is it realistic to average $17.50 a day trading YM with 3.5k ??

Quote from traderdragon2:

Not really, he's trading futures which have massive liquidity. 1% a month is a good first goal. Hell, break even each month is a good first goal.
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1% per month for a small account trading futures is an absolute ridiculous goal. Let's see, in this case 1% per month would be $35 NET. Trading YM, that's exactly 7 tics NET in 20 trading days. Compounding profits, the goal remains unchanged until month 8, when the goal rises to a whopping 8 YM tics. You gotta be some kick-ass, extremely accurate, futures trader with unwavering discipline and well beyond the beginner phase to do that! LOL

But I'll concede, you are right... That return would have nothing to do with style of trade. Regardless of style if you can't net some *multiple* of 7 YM tics in 20 trading days, probability runs very high that YM trading is not for you.

Osorico
 
It seems like there is confusion between investment returns on non margined assets and daytrading highly leveraged futures?
"1% a month is a good first goal"
"1/4% per day average"
These quotes seem to be saying he can't do it, but in fact the thread asks if you can make far less than those numbers. This thread is about day trading a very leveraged asset; it is not about trading fully paid for stock.

He is asking if he can make 10% per month ($17.5*20days/$3500) on a little more than the overnight margin for a YM. Can it be done by a good experienced trader? Sure. Can he do it? That remains to be seen.

Balda had it right when he said the YM is about $65000, so are some of you guys saying that a good futures trader can't make $17.50/day or $17.5*250/$65k= 6.7% per year? I will be the first to agree that leverage can wipe you out, but it works to the advantage of a good trader. I would think everyone would agree that you can make 6.7%/year, so it becomes a question of whether the trader can handle the leverage properly. Most don't, some do.
 
Quote from osorico:

1% per month for a small account trading futures is an absolute ridiculous goal. Let's see, in this case 1% per month would be $35 NET.
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Exactly Osorico. But why exactly do you think that small speculators can earn so much more than large professional speculators?

You can trade a 1000 lot of S&Ps as easily as a one lot YM in normal circumstances.

Or do you think that beginners in golf should have a realistic goal of becoming the next Tiger Woods overnight?
 
Quote from jimmygold:

LOL !! Ha maybe I should have made it clear in this Thread like I did the previous thread. I already have been trading for 7 years and over 3 years fulltime. I implement a Swing and Position strategy which I have been living off very comfortably for the last 3+ years.

Sorry for the confusion here !! I am getting into a whole new ballgame here with futures. But my Risk management and profit/loss target skills are honed to a tee !! Otherwise I would not have been this profitable for so long.

Looking back at this Thread i probably seem a little juevenile at what I wrote.

This is just a new animal to me and has caused a litle tension. But I know the principles of Trading for the last 7 years that I have patiently developed will unduly be of benefit to me whether its swing trading, options, futures or whatever.

I have a very detailed plan I have written out on the setups I will be using and have been using on Simulator.
As well, as predefined profit/loss objectives and overall short term and long term objectives with my futures trading.

I have spent countless and countless hours even before Simulation of building a strong solid plan in trading futures. as well as being mentored by two professionals who I cannot speak highly enough of their ability to show me a stellar introduction to successful futures trading.

I realize it will take years to be even modestly adequate at this game of futures. Luckily, profits from my fulltime trading will allow for this. And fortunately unlike 99% of you who post here, I do NOT have to go back and work for someone else. :p



Peace out !!


P.S. probably make that 99.9% who post here !! :eek:
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Jimmygold,

I'm in the same situation as you are right now. I've been simulating with the ER2 for about 2 months now and just started becoming profitable instead of losing. What changed in my trading? Well about 2 weeks ago I decided to write down my trading plan in detail and follow it exactly. It's a very simple plan that involves one high-probability setup ( 85-90% success rate) and a very small profit target. I don't deviate one bit now and it is working good. End of day I'm net positive instead of neg. In a month or so I plan to trade with real money with a faily small account.

Anyhow I think what you are doing is smart. Some here are saying $17/day is not worth it, go work at mcdonald's, go to vegas blah blah. Well its obvious they missed your objective, which is to trade real time with real money to get the through the learning curve without risking too much capital. But the key here, and the reason why I think you'll succeed, is that your profit target is that much easier to achieve.

To me scalping for 1 or 2 ticks instead of daytrading for 1 or 2 points is key. Your chances of replicating a trade for 1 or 2 ticks is a lot higher than going for larger .5 to 1 point moves. You're more likely to get stopped out when you go for that one point or more.

Anyhow I hope things work out for you, and I'm willing to bet they will if you've been doing good for the last 4 weeks as you say. Only question I have for you is why YM? ER2 is $10/tick and $500 margin. More bang for your buck.
 
Quote from jimmygold:

Somehow I missed this post by this guy.
I think Elite trader ought to ban this character for making such an imbecile statement. :eek:

I have NOT traded one live contract of YM, but I know using my commonsense that you DO NOT need 300k to pull off consistent profits in the YM.

Thats absurd !!!
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I didn't say you needed 300k to trade the YM did I?
 
amazing how self restricting those targets are. A good and profitable trader thinks from trade to trade and not from day to day or for the profit percentage of next month. How can you give all you have when you are limiting yourself from the beginning? How can you achieve the things you want when you compare youself with the majority of people who are claiming to earn figures they are just dreaming of? You have your sim results and your working setups so whats the problem to do the maths when you are just trading a system?
The real point is that you definitely dont know what you can do. And asking here will not give you the answer.

P.
 
jimmygold, i'm in the same situation. 5k account, i'm going for for a 20pt target, 10 pt stop YM.

it comes down i've read of very little traders who have not blown out an account when starting trading futures. losing 5k is better than losing 20k. certainly better than losing 300k.

to me paper trading is like hitting a punching bag in a gym, you can't become a good boxer without getting fights under your belt actually inside a ring. or like mike tyson "everyone has a plan until they get hit". if your confident in your setup, step in the ring and take your beating like a man. :)
 
Quote from BJL:

Exactly Osorico. But why exactly do you think that small speculators can earn so much more than large professional speculators?

You can trade a 1000 lot of S&Ps as easily as a one lot YM in normal circumstances.

Or do you think that beginners in golf should have a realistic goal of becoming the next Tiger Woods overnight?
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1) It is proven that small accounts, when coupled with sound risk management and a proven profitable strategy can achieve far greater percentage returns than those of multi-million/billion dollar accounts. There are many differences between the two different account types, not just value.

2) Yes, ES offers liquidity. But have you ever traded it? Firstly you need to realize because of ES tic (.25), 9 out of 10 times price will need to move through a limit price for fill. Now then, you come at ES with 1K size during a low velocity low ferocity period, whether market or limit you will affect the price. Yes, it will be absorbed, but how much at what price(s)? Applies to entry and exit. A small retail trader, say 50 or less contracts, has a much greater chance of a)getting filled at one price, entry and exit and b) can employ more types of strategies and styles dependant or independant of velocity and ferocity. Remember, not all strategies are based on volume or volatility expansion.

3) Of course realistic goals are important. But they need to be challenging. I'll wager that when Tiger was a young lad, his coaches did not say "go for par +18 on this course". Or "go for 100 yd drives on the front nine and 150 yds on the back nine.".

Osorico
 
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