Is it likely to be a successful trader if you have a full time job?
- Thread starter bottomdollar
- Start date
Depends on what your day job is.
If you can sit in front of the screen on a daily basis without interruption and can trade without impacting your ability to do your day job, then I'd say the answer is yes.
However, like others have said, it's a long shot and really the only way I can see it working is if you're already working in the capital markets in some fashion. As many have said, intra-day trading isn't something you do profitably in your spare time, you either devote the time necessary to be successful or you lose money.
My example? I trade high yield debt for a financial services company in TX so I'm sitting in front of the screens all day whether I'm trading equities/options/futures/currencies or not. I'm already following all the indicators, so trading my P/A on the side isn't distracting to my day job and actually helps keep me focused on what the market is saying during the day as we're a buy and hold investor, so I'm not moving huge volume in and out of our portfolio on a daily basis (meaning long down periods where my sole job responsibility if following the markets and relaying information to our analysts/PM's as necessary).
Personally, if I had a job that didn't allow me to sit in front of the screens and pay attention to what was going on in the market, I'd be out of my mind to try and trade anything.
If you can sit in front of the screen on a daily basis without interruption and can trade without impacting your ability to do your day job, then I'd say the answer is yes.
However, like others have said, it's a long shot and really the only way I can see it working is if you're already working in the capital markets in some fashion. As many have said, intra-day trading isn't something you do profitably in your spare time, you either devote the time necessary to be successful or you lose money.
My example? I trade high yield debt for a financial services company in TX so I'm sitting in front of the screens all day whether I'm trading equities/options/futures/currencies or not. I'm already following all the indicators, so trading my P/A on the side isn't distracting to my day job and actually helps keep me focused on what the market is saying during the day as we're a buy and hold investor, so I'm not moving huge volume in and out of our portfolio on a daily basis (meaning long down periods where my sole job responsibility if following the markets and relaying information to our analysts/PM's as necessary).
Personally, if I had a job that didn't allow me to sit in front of the screens and pay attention to what was going on in the market, I'd be out of my mind to try and trade anything.
Guys thank you for all your comments. I appreciate you taking the time to give me your view.
Yes I read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell and read the 10,000 hours. Currently I dedicate around 2 hours a day to trading and learning everyday which isn't a small amount considering that I have a steady job + home chores. I worked out it is still 13 years to get to the 10,000 hours. Wow, that really is some committment in ones time and energy and trading success is not guaranteed.
Yes I read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell and read the 10,000 hours. Currently I dedicate around 2 hours a day to trading and learning everyday which isn't a small amount considering that I have a steady job + home chores. I worked out it is still 13 years to get to the 10,000 hours. Wow, that really is some committment in ones time and energy and trading success is not guaranteed.
I have to add my 2 cents.
First it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert in the field. My goals are less lofty: To trade profitably and consistently, not to be among the top in the field. While I probably have put in my 10k, much of it was probably wasted. Vince Lombardi once said something like "Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect". It's important to identify what matters and focus on that.
Second, there are a lot of possibilities in between day trading and buy and hold. I have monthly strategies (for my 401K), weekly strategies based in part on fundamentals, and technical swing strategies based on daily data. It is possible to trade profitably while working a full time job, but for me the research has been a time consuming hobby.
First it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert in the field. My goals are less lofty: To trade profitably and consistently, not to be among the top in the field. While I probably have put in my 10k, much of it was probably wasted. Vince Lombardi once said something like "Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect". It's important to identify what matters and focus on that.
Second, there are a lot of possibilities in between day trading and buy and hold. I have monthly strategies (for my 401K), weekly strategies based in part on fundamentals, and technical swing strategies based on daily data. It is possible to trade profitably while working a full time job, but for me the research has been a time consuming hobby.
Having another job outside trading,I think,should be an advantage in that it can help you stay in the game longer to learn,survive,and do whatever you have to do to become consistently profitable.
Another benefit to working outside trading is it pretty much eliminates the pressure of having to make money trading while going through the learning process.
I trade four and a half days per week and work another 40 hrs doing something else.
Another benefit to working outside trading is it pretty much eliminates the pressure of having to make money trading while going through the learning process.
I trade four and a half days per week and work another 40 hrs doing something else.
I did it. In 1985 I was an Engineer and in 1993 I started trading part-time and was a full-time trader two years later.
I have several clients who who lost money trading themselves or with prop firms without an organized plan and viable strategy and failed, got other jobs or started businesses, and after a few years have subsequently started to trade again. One of my more successful clients continues to run his business but swing and day trades spread positions.
Honestly, in many ways it is an advantage - you can really organize and define your strategy in a progressive and logical manner before you risk your first dollar in the market. Having to force trades to make a living usually leads to disaster.
I have several clients who who lost money trading themselves or with prop firms without an organized plan and viable strategy and failed, got other jobs or started businesses, and after a few years have subsequently started to trade again. One of my more successful clients continues to run his business but swing and day trades spread positions.
Honestly, in many ways it is an advantage - you can really organize and define your strategy in a progressive and logical manner before you risk your first dollar in the market. Having to force trades to make a living usually leads to disaster.
Well, you aren't likely to be a successful trader regardless of whether you have a full time job or not, if you want to be a realist about it.
I have personally bypassed this whole problem by circumventing the need to learn to trade. I actually suck at trading...
But you don't have to be good at trading to make a lot of money trading. You need to be good at designing trading systems. I'm sure there are lots of guys out there that make more money than I do trading, but I'm pretty happy with what my systems generate and I am just getting started in some respects. Let the computer do the trading for you. Computers are better at repetitive tasks, and computers don't have emotions. Humans are better with creative thinking and analysis, so use those to your advantage and let the computer do the part it is good at.
So I guess in summary I'd say, either spend your time developing and implementing automated systems, or do as some others have suggested and go to longer swing/position time frames. You can see where my preference is, I imagine.
For me, the term 'pressure' means digging my way out of a hole for the day. I tend to trade particularly well under 'pressure', and I used to lament the fact that I was making money back instead of adding for the day. In retrospect, it's just part of the business - making capital back or adding capital is good either way.
Things started to turn for me a couple of years into my trading career when I made it a point to add the same level of concentration and intensity to my trading when I wasn't under 'pressure' (digging myself out of a hole on the day).
In terms of a full-time job and trading part time, I have had a few clients make the transisition to full-time trading by just creating some consistency. Proprietary trading firm employers wanted to see consistency, and the fact that the guy had a $20K account and averaged $300 per day meant very little to their job offer decision - what they are looking at is the SCALABILITY of the trade. The same guy with a $250K account and lots of daily $10K swings would have been a much weaker candidate. Prop firms want traders who are somewhat boring, and grind out income every day. Those guys, they throw alot of money at them once they get their feet under them. A prop firm will cream their jeans over a guy who can have 15 winning days and 4 losing days in a month - especially over time with different market conditions.
Things started to turn for me a couple of years into my trading career when I made it a point to add the same level of concentration and intensity to my trading when I wasn't under 'pressure' (digging myself out of a hole on the day).
In terms of a full-time job and trading part time, I have had a few clients make the transisition to full-time trading by just creating some consistency. Proprietary trading firm employers wanted to see consistency, and the fact that the guy had a $20K account and averaged $300 per day meant very little to their job offer decision - what they are looking at is the SCALABILITY of the trade. The same guy with a $250K account and lots of daily $10K swings would have been a much weaker candidate. Prop firms want traders who are somewhat boring, and grind out income every day. Those guys, they throw alot of money at them once they get their feet under them. A prop firm will cream their jeans over a guy who can have 15 winning days and 4 losing days in a month - especially over time with different market conditions.