Is it legal for IB to do this? Considering pressing a charge...

Im 19 and use TOS and am very happy. The software works great on my mac. I really like the ACH to move money around. Never had any problems whatsoever with my account and sleep sound with my money with them.

When I turn 21 I'll defiantly open an account with IB, but I'm happy with TOS for now even with the higher commissions. Oh and if you have all your rights when your 18 your wrong, you basically have no rights until you are 21.
 
Quote from Gubinec:

And if I do sue, it's not like I'm going to get money anyway. Simply letting me do business with them will suffice by changing their policy or making an exception.
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Go ahead and sue them. You'll just find yourself on the losing end even if you find an attorney to take your case. Then you'll find out that you've been black listed with most firms.

Nobody has to do business with you, kid! Not a grocery store, not a bar, not a resturant, not a fast food chain, not a BD -- NOBODY.
 
Quote from kxvid:

Im 19 and use TOS and am very happy. The software works great on my mac. I really like the ACH to move money around. Never had any problems whatsoever with my account and sleep sound with my money with them.

When I turn 21 I'll defiantly open an account with IB, but I'm happy with TOS for now even with the higher commissions. Oh and if you have all your rights when your 18 your wrong, you basically have no rights until you are 21.
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TOS is too costly. It costs even more than Ameritrade. I'll try getting IB to make an exception for me.

For all others, a business could have a countless number of reasons not to accept my business, whether it's my dress, my history, or whatever. Age just seems like a very vague point to discriminate on especially when 1) it comes to allowing one to trade stocks but not options, and 2) you're legally an adult.

I imagine a lot of you here give up quickly in what you set out to do based on your responses. I don't think I've read even one post telling me to just try getting them to make an exception for me. Hell, maybe I'll be my own lawyer. I don't give a fuck. They got no right to let me trade stocks but not options. They should either disallow trading anything until I'm 21, or allow me to trade everything given that I'm an legal adult.
 
Quote from Gubinec:

TOS is too costly. It costs even more than Ameritrade. I'll try getting IB to make an exception for me.

For all others, a business could have a countless number of reasons not to accept my business, whether it's my dress, my history, or whatever. Age just seems like a very vague point to discriminate on especially when 1) it comes to allowing one to trade stocks but not options, and 2) you're legally an adult.

I imagine a lot of you here give up quickly in what you set out to do based on your responses. I don't think I've read even one post telling me to just try getting them to make an exception for me. Hell, maybe I'll be my own lawyer. I don't give a fuck. They got no right to let me trade stocks but not options. They should either disallow trading anything until I'm 21, or allow me to trade everything given that I'm an legal adult.
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Even if you get an exemption from their age policy you'll probably bump into the no douchebags policy. I'm not sure though.

Seriously.. When you get a little older you will realize how stupid you sounded and how misguided you were thinking you could sue a business for refusing you based on age. Any business can deny you based on whatever they want. It may feel like they're doing something wrong, but that's all .. it just feels that way to you.
 
Quote from Gubinec:

TOS is too costly. It costs even more than Ameritrade. I'll try getting IB to make an exception for me.

For all others, a business could have a countless number of reasons not to accept my business, whether it's my dress, my history, or whatever. Age just seems like a very vague point to discriminate on especially when 1) it comes to allowing one to trade stocks but not options, and 2) you're legally an adult.

I imagine a lot of you here give up quickly in what you set out to do based on your responses. I don't think I've read even one post telling me to just try getting them to make an exception for me. Hell, maybe I'll be my own lawyer. I don't give a fuck. They got no right to let me trade stocks but not options. They should either disallow trading anything until I'm 21, or allow me to trade everything given that I'm an legal adult.
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I was going to quote another of your posts but this one I guess will do.

What your basically saying is that they are discriminating against you based on your age.

Normally when people hear the term "discrimination" they automatically think that its illegal. This is simply not true. In fact its not only legal to discriminate against people its done all the time. For example, a business looks at two applications for a job and picks one over the other because one went to college and graduated and the other did not. This would be discrimination based on education and is perfectly legal.

I am sure if you try you can think of many ways of discrimination that are perfectly legal.

Speaking of what a broker can and can not do, a broker (or any other company for that matter) may do ANYTHING that is not specifically against the law. There is a specific law that says a business may not discriminate based on the sex of the customer or the marital status, or race, or religious status etc....

There is even some laws on the books that talk about age. For example in many states and at the federal level you can not descriminate against a potential employee based on their age (as in they are too old).

What I believe you will not find is a law in your state or in the federal code that says its illegal for a company to discriminate against a customer based on their LACK of age.

So getting back to the theory that a company (or person) can do anything that is not specifically outlawed they can have a policy not to do business with someone who is not reached the age of 21.

Of course you might actually find some lawyer hard up for some money who would take your case and sue and/or try to get IB to change their policy but I think it would be very difficult to find a court case that would agree with your position that its illegal for IB to have this policy. It may be a bad business practice but hardly illegal in my opinion.

On a different argument but with the same issue was the 21 yr old drinking laws that came into effect in the 1980s. Many people sued to be able to drink and all of the cases lost. (some cases did win in that the under 21s where allowed to be in bars but this is irrelevant as both parties in this type of contract where in agreement and it was basically the under 21s vs the state and not against another company)

FWIW, If you don't like the way IB is treating you then find a company that will treat you with the respect you desire as they are not the only game in town and you can find other brokers that have similar or even better pricing. Besides, IB customer service is sub par IMHO.

BTW, I started trading when I was 16 which unfortunately was before you were born : o )

Best to you

RW
 
Quote from Robert Weinstein:

I was going to quote another of your posts but this one I guess will do.

What your basically saying is that they are discriminating against you based on your age.

Normally when people hear the term "discrimination" they automatically think that its illegal. This is simply not true. In fact its not only legal to discriminate against people its done all the time. For example, a business looks at two applications for a job and picks one over the other because one went to college and graduated and the other did not. This would be discrimination based on education and is perfectly legal.

I am sure if you try you can think of many ways of discrimination that are perfectly legal.

Speaking of what a broker can and can not do, a broker (or any other company for that matter) may do ANYTHING that is not specifically against the law. There is a specific law that says a business may not discriminate based on the sex of the customer or the marital status, or race, or religious status etc....

There is even some laws on the books that talk about age. For example in many states and at the federal level you can not descriminate against a potential employee based on their age (as in they are too old).

What I believe you will not find is a law in your state or in the federal code that says its illegal for a company to discriminate against a customer based on their LACK of age.

So getting back to the theory that a company (or person) can do anything that is not specifically outlawed they can have a policy not to do business with someone who is not reached the age of 21.

Of course you might actually find some lawyer hard up for some money who would take your case and sue and/or try to get IB to change their policy but I think it would be very difficult to find a court case that would agree with your position that its illegal for IB to have this policy. It may be a bad business practice but hardly illegal in my opinion.

On a different argument but with the same issue was the 21 yr old drinking laws that came into effect in the 1980s. Many people sued to be able to drink and all of the cases lost. (some cases did win in that the under 21s where allowed to be in bars but this is irrelevant as both parties in this type of contract where in agreement and it was basically the under 21s vs the state and not against another company)

FWIW, If you don't like the way IB is treating you then find a company that will treat you with the respect you desire as they are not the only game in town and you can find other brokers that have similar or even better pricing. Besides, IB customer service is sub par IMHO.

BTW, I started trading when I was 16 which unfortunately was before you were born : o )

Best to you

RW
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Thanks a lot for your input, Robert. I was told by one law firm to call the NYC Bar Association and that they'll give me an answer immediately.

I guess you and other people here are right, in that it's legal for them to do so. But it's still a bad practice IMO, and I don't see why it's impossible to get them to change. There were many "legal" practices in the past that are now illegal, and this case is no different, It might be lots of trouble, but I stand by my principle and will try to find someone who'd be willing to help me in court if I decide to do it (most likely will).

I know that 20-50 bucks saved every day in fees might not be worth the trouble of a lawsuit for some, but for me even though those 50 backs matter a lot, it's not only the money involved. I guess I'm just a hardheaded son of a gun, but I won't be able to sleep well at night knowing that I am being wronged and paying an extra 50 bucks (even if it was 5 bucks) every day because of some stupid random age discrimination policy. It's more of a moral principle for me than a financial one.

Thanks again for all the posters' input here!
 
Here is an in-depth explanation:

The simplest action that you can actually take would be to setup a shell corporation. You can do so for a couple hundred dollars and have it ready as quickly as 24-48 hours. Then you can simply make yourself the acting director of the corporation and start a corporate account with a broker. However be warned if you choose to go down this path your entity will be labeled as a professional client and you will have to pay professional market data fees.

The laws on setting up corporations are very lax actually, even a 13 year old with a prepaid debit card could create their own corporation theoretically, and be the managing director, although for all intensive purposes if there ever were a legal dispute for whatever reason it would presumably be conflicted.

Even in states where the age of majority is 21, there are still many 18-20 year olds with checking accounts and credit cards, auto loans, etc. While the age may technically be above 18, there are generally state laws that allow and dictate for the imposition of a liability for a lien or whatever else on the 18-20 year old. The age of 21 being full majority limited to estate and inheritance purposes only , under those select conditions only would a person under 21 be considered a minor for legal purposes. For example if an 18 year does not pay owed taxes to a state or federal government they can be charged as any other adult with tax fraud.

The company can dictate whatever policy it likes though, although an 18-20 year old may be deemed liable for such a contract, the company may not wish to enter into such a contract with the counterparty. The company has a screening process for clients and if you do not meet the minimum requirements then you would not be eligible for such services.

In order to rent a car all the large car rental corporations in the us require a minimum of 21 in most states, while ironically most major truck rental corporations only require a minimum age of 18.

Another poster was correct by stating that there are only anti-discrimination laws for ethnicity/race/sex, old age, nationality, socioeconomic status, class, language, disability, military status, religion/ spirtual beliefs, pregnancy, political affiliation, citizenship, medical conditions, sexual orientation or marital status yet there are no anti-discrimination laws for young age.

By the way the age of majority was originally created for inheritance and was 21 in the US since 1776, before the bretton-woods world when us living standards were much lower under 21s were treated as adults for work and marriage purposes. There are many illegal alien teenagers from Latin America that are under 18 and work (or commit crimes) like any other illegal would, yet they are still deported like any other illegal and are considered mature enough to live on their own according to their origin governments.

An alternative would be to use someone else's' name and ssn to open an account, but then of course that would be getting into the identity "borrowing" grey area, although since you are over 18 (in a few states 17) you are LIABLE for all of your actions and it is fundamentally your choice.
The key word here is LIABILITY.
 
Just a friendly word of advice here: it's very unlikely that the law firm meant that the NYC bar association will give you an answer to a legal question that you might consider to be actionable. NYC bar is a legal association, not a law firm. Most likely, the law firm you called simply don't want to bother talking to you at all - least client/counsel relationship attaches - so they told you to call NYC bar to refer an attorney who might be able to help. In short, and don't get upset by this, they told you to f*ck off.

Quote from Gubinec:

Thanks a lot for your input, Robert. I was told by one law firm to call the NYC Bar Association and that they'll give me an answer immediately.
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