Quote from jueco2005:
100% disagree.:eek:
Disagree why? Are you claiming that their motives are not purely because of "profit"?
This I have to hear.
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Is it Capitalism or Corporatism??
- Thread starter jueco2005
- Start date
Disagree why? Are you claiming that their motives are not purely because of "profit"?
This I have to hear.
Privatize the assets and profits, Socialize the losses and risks.
I have to say that this thread is one of the best among many others that I have seen in ages. Everyone should see this and wake up to reality. Far too long people are resting on two popular beliefs: a capitalist utopia or a socialist utopia. Truth is neither can exist. They are structurally impossible. In the end, the supporters of both extreme ends (the average joes) become robbed slowly from those in the middle ground, who are a hybrid of capitalist and socialist ideals.
I'll add that the stock market is a socialist structure for the rich capitalist. Buying pressure from new investors (usually the poor) that results in high prices benefit the major shareholders (the rich). That's how people like Carlos can get $70+ billions networth. It is wealth built on an unfair system. These people get the best of both worlds, with no disadvantages. To put the perspective in simple terms, a few simply benefit at the expense of everyone else.
I'll add that the stock market is a socialist structure for the rich capitalist. Buying pressure from new investors (usually the poor) that results in high prices benefit the major shareholders (the rich). That's how people like Carlos can get $70+ billions networth. It is wealth built on an unfair system. These people get the best of both worlds, with no disadvantages. To put the perspective in simple terms, a few simply benefit at the expense of everyone else.
I also agree with some people here who mentioned that capitalism has evolved into corporatism. There is another paradigm to corporatism other than using state power for corporate benefits. It is the unfair growth structure called exponential growth. Big companies do not need to be competitive. They can just be mediocre and let the magic of exponential growth gives them significant money. Small companies that aren't competitive will simply die off. The remaining competitive ones will grow a lot (eg 100%), but this growth is small in 'absolute terms' compared to that of big companies. So these small companies will simply get bought by big companies. The end result, big companies get even bigger. And the churning process starts again.
Quote from jlryan87:
I have to say that this thread is one of the best among many others that I have seen in ages. Everyone should see this and wake up to reality. Far too long people are resting on two popular beliefs: a capitalist utopia or a socialist utopia. Truth is neither can exist. They are structurally impossible. In the end, the supporters of both extreme ends (the average joes) become robbed slowly from those in the middle ground, who are a hybrid of capitalist and socialist ideals.
I'll add that the stock market is a socialist structure for the rich capitalist. Buying pressure from new investors (usually the poor) that results in high prices benefit the major shareholders (the rich). That's how people like Carlos can get $70+ billions networth. It is wealth built on an unfair system. These people get the best of both worlds, with no disadvantages. To put the perspective in simple terms, a few simply benefit at the expense of everyone else.
Your analysis is indeed very insightful.
What I have seen during the past 4 years is how strong this system really is.
We change president and political parties all across America. Yet Bernanke and his friends remained in power. Financial executives walked away with Billions and the top rich got richer.
Forbes 400 Triple Wealth in 5 years
http://www.squattable.com/blog/bird...ution-wealth-forbes-400-triple-wealth-5-years
http://www.squattable.com/blog/bird...ution-wealth-forbes-400-triple-wealth-5-years
One way the connected Oligarchs near the top of the pyramid protect themselves is by defining "wealthy" by what is within the average, middle class person's framework of reference, rather than by what "wealthy" really means in the global corporatist/crony capitalist system.
A while back a prof wrote a newspaper article where he complained at being labeled "wealthy" with the 300k or so a year income between him and his wife. Of course, middle class readers, foolish as they are, were "OUTRAGED" he did not consider himself wealthy. A middle class person thinks a Dr. is wealthy, but most doctors know enough to realize they are still small time wage earners in the world of wealth.
Then we are told that the wealthy, "create jobs and economic growth".
Well, SOME of them do. Yet today it seems the largest rewards often go not to productive businessmen in the "real" economy, but rather to a horde of financial and legal extortionists who know precisely how to suckle the tit of state power in order to maximize their rewards, with little or no value added to the rest of society. They are first in line when the government starts handing out "free" money and shovel as much into their pockets as possible. In fact, this huge swarm of wealthy individuals pilfer purchasing power that is parasitic on the rest of society.
Such individuals win at the big state sponsored global casinos we call "private equity" or "hedge funds" or "investment banking" or something similar. When they "broke the casino" then had the state print of money so that they could all get payed off.
By reducing the cost of capital for 30 years, massive amounts of wealth and assets were shifted from real, value creating businessmen (who cashed out at what they thought were obscene values) to a collection of financial extortionists and usurers. Few people stop to consider how government policy (manipulating the cost of capital) necessarily creates a huge shift in wealth and income (hint hint: zero % rates = 100% tax on interest income on one hand, and booming speculative/capital values on the other. Who invests where?)
Now, I am no egalitarian and do not believe all people deserve equal opportunity (because it is impossible) or equal outcomes. I find progressive taxation to be abhorrent. In truth the oligarchs (unlike productive businessmen who operate in the "real" economy) hardly fear progressive taxation.
The one line of reform that is needed is the one you never hear discussed.
We need Legal and financial reform that REMOVES as many rent-seeking privileges (All forms of state licensing) and "free call options" (The state backed financial cartel) granted by the state as possible. In my view this even includes military spending, which subsidizes overseas investments of multinational corporations.
In conclusion we need return to producer-centric capitalism rather than rent-seeking capitalism. We of course will never reach an ideal, however I think if enough people become informed a large block of activists can shift the debate.
A while back a prof wrote a newspaper article where he complained at being labeled "wealthy" with the 300k or so a year income between him and his wife. Of course, middle class readers, foolish as they are, were "OUTRAGED" he did not consider himself wealthy. A middle class person thinks a Dr. is wealthy, but most doctors know enough to realize they are still small time wage earners in the world of wealth.
Then we are told that the wealthy, "create jobs and economic growth".
Well, SOME of them do. Yet today it seems the largest rewards often go not to productive businessmen in the "real" economy, but rather to a horde of financial and legal extortionists who know precisely how to suckle the tit of state power in order to maximize their rewards, with little or no value added to the rest of society. They are first in line when the government starts handing out "free" money and shovel as much into their pockets as possible. In fact, this huge swarm of wealthy individuals pilfer purchasing power that is parasitic on the rest of society.
Such individuals win at the big state sponsored global casinos we call "private equity" or "hedge funds" or "investment banking" or something similar. When they "broke the casino" then had the state print of money so that they could all get payed off.
By reducing the cost of capital for 30 years, massive amounts of wealth and assets were shifted from real, value creating businessmen (who cashed out at what they thought were obscene values) to a collection of financial extortionists and usurers. Few people stop to consider how government policy (manipulating the cost of capital) necessarily creates a huge shift in wealth and income (hint hint: zero % rates = 100% tax on interest income on one hand, and booming speculative/capital values on the other. Who invests where?)
Now, I am no egalitarian and do not believe all people deserve equal opportunity (because it is impossible) or equal outcomes. I find progressive taxation to be abhorrent. In truth the oligarchs (unlike productive businessmen who operate in the "real" economy) hardly fear progressive taxation.
The one line of reform that is needed is the one you never hear discussed.
We need Legal and financial reform that REMOVES as many rent-seeking privileges (All forms of state licensing) and "free call options" (The state backed financial cartel) granted by the state as possible. In my view this even includes military spending, which subsidizes overseas investments of multinational corporations.
In conclusion we need return to producer-centric capitalism rather than rent-seeking capitalism. We of course will never reach an ideal, however I think if enough people become informed a large block of activists can shift the debate.