Is it because I dont care?

cashmoney69 · Jul 27, 2006

I've been trading for seven months now, so I'm still new. I keep a journal on this forum called "Adventures of a new trader" where I post charts, entry, exits, and my thoughts about the trades, I also keep a journal at my desk filled with recorded information of all kinds...

yet i'm still losing money..

Whenever I make a losing trade, I always try and figure out WHY.. Was it because

* S/R was not where I though it was
* I was impatient and did not allow the trade to grow
* Stops were too tight
* unlucky

When I lose money, my attitude is "Oh well, I can try again tomorrow". I lost 90% of my gains for this month in a two day period and I dont care as much as I think I should.

Is it because I have a hidden desire to fail?..I dont see how this is possible because I'm totally addicted to the markets, and take my trading seriously.

What do you think?

- nathan

dandxg · Jul 27, 2006

Cash,

Why don't you tell us what happened in detail, if you want feedback, in those 2 losing days? Did you follow your plan? Do you have a plan? Did you go against the trend ( sometimes bad if you aren't good at counter trend trading ).

Dogballoon · Jul 27, 2006

Could be. You could have a high risk tolerance because you subconsciously don't mind proving to yourself that you do not really plan to be a trader.

It primarily sounds like you do not have a method for trading (if you're day trading, being able to trade countertrend days, momentum days, and trending days) that you are confident in. If you are not confident in your ability to understand and take advantage of market opportunites, you are uncomfortable with the risk of losing money trying, and thus uncomfortable with the career.

Are you retail? Do you have a good mentor? Are you playing with money that will be painful to lose?

fframe38 · Jul 27, 2006

Quote from cashmoney69:

When I lose money, my attitude is "Oh well, I can try again tomorrow". I lost 90% of my gains for this month in a two day period and I dont care as much as I think I should.

Is it because I have a hidden desire to fail?..I dont see how this is possible because I'm totally addicted to the markets, and take my trading seriously.

What do you think?

- nathan

Several serious problems I see here....

1. Either trade very small size, or quit trading entirely and study some more before starting any new trades. It is probable you have no real edge at all currently. You must PROVE that you have one before you will actually have enough confidence in what you are doing to make money consistenly. Can you succinctly DEFINE exactly what your EDGE is? ( Note I meant at home for yourself, not here in the forum ). Is it written down?

2. The psychological techniques, journaling, etc. is great when applied to an existing EDGE with positive expectancy - but it is just busy work if you are trading a losing method or haphazardly.

3. When you lose money, you should immediately ask, "WHY did this happen? What can I learn from this? Is it preventable, or a normal part of my method? If preventable, what can I do to avoid these kinds of problems in the future? Am I using a stop? If so, is it too tight or too loose? Am I "chasing moves" that are already almost over?

4. When somebody says they are ADDICTED to the markets, that is usually a big RED FLAG! It means you are likely trying to generate excitement similar to betting over your head in a casino. Proper trading will eventually become much less EXCITING ( even perhaps BORING ), but much more profitable. You must learn to exercise PATIENCE to not just jump into any old trade because you are bored or needing "action". You should only start trades when they have a favorable risk/reward profile. You should not be trading such large size that you are getting a RUSH out of the trade.....

That's a start at what to look at. Note, it will probably take YEARS to get things consistently profitable - being unprofitable after a few months is NORMAL and part of the learning process. Your job now is to keep the losses SMALL and MANAGEABLE, and make sure you are learning from your mistakes and not just repeating them over and over.....

Bearbelly · Jul 27, 2006

I think it is good to keep your losing days equal to or less than your average winning day. It is hard to stop trading but if you cant stop trading when youre supposed to you really dont have much of a chance, imo.

cashmoney69 · Jul 27, 2006

Quote from dandxg:

Cash,

Why don't you tell us what happened in detail, if you want feedback, in those 2 losing days? Did you follow your plan? Do you have a plan? Did you go against the trend ( sometimes bad if you aren't good at counter trend trading ).

bought stld on 7/20.. yea, that big red candle

.. saw it running up, so I bought some thinking it might gap up the next morning. But no, it gaps down below my stop. Do i sell?..no :eek: I waited for 57.20 I think it was then got out. Bad discipline on my part.

The second day I bought LIFC, chart looked good, indicators looked good, but I think my stops may have been too tight because today, had I held a little longer, would have hit my target of 30.00.

Cheese · Jul 27, 2006

Quote from cashmoney69:
What do you think?

You are experiencing the well known noob syndrome: 'How to thoroughly f**k yourself up the butt'
You are unprepared for the task of trading to make money quite aside from whether or not you are a suitable personality to undertake independent trading.

Mike805 · Jul 27, 2006

Quote from Cheese:

You are unprepared for the task of trading to make money quite aside from whether or not you are a suitable personality to undertake independent trading.

Nathan,

Why don't you provide us with some personal history? I don't know you, your accomplishments, your age, maturity level etc etc... hence I cannot make a judgement about your aptitude towards the markets. Given this, what cheese says is dead on - you have not prepared a comprehensive approach detailing what it is you want to accomplish and how you intend to do it. This is step one.

Given you produce the necessary effort to get through step one there are many hurdles that successful people deal with on a daily basis in achieving their success. Some have a knack for getting through these hurdles, some get stuck in a corner and never turn around. I say this because when confronted with a challenge/failure, what is your typical response? Do you get frustrated and give up? Do you keep trying the same thing over and over again while still achieving the same (negative) results - the definition of insanity BTW. Do you try new ideas and stick to them until your self-reflection/post analysis deems those ideas useless?

foible · Jul 27, 2006

Quote from cashmoney69:

Was it because

* S/R was not where I though it was
* I was impatient and did not allow the trade to grow
* Stops were too tight
* unlucky

When I lose money, my attitude is "Oh well, I can try again tomorrow".

I think you may have a combination of these. S/R is not firm and can be broken, you've said you shut down trades due to impatience (and too trades on a whim). Your stops seem pretty wide and you've broken them on occasion, so I don't think you need to worry about being too tight. And hey, we are all unlucky - it's about managing it so our unlucky trades don't hurt us and our lucky trades can make us more than our losses.

Why don't you tell us. What common themes run through your losses? What have you done to address them?

After the last big loss you took (wiped out about 10% of your account balance, and all of this year's profits, if I recall correctly), did it not have any impact? Are you trading to self-destruct (many traders do), trading to gamble, or are you serious about success?

martys · Jul 27, 2006

Quote from cashmoney69:

I've been trading for seven months now, so I'm still new. I keep a journal on this forum called "Adventures of a new trader" where I post charts, entry, exits, and my thoughts about the trades, I also keep a journal at my desk filled with recorded information of all kinds...

yet i'm still losing money..

Whenever I make a losing trade, I always try and figure out WHY.. Was it because

* S/R was not where I though it was
* I was impatient and did not allow the trade to grow
* Stops were too tight
* unlucky

When I lose money, my attitude is "Oh well, I can try again tomorrow". I lost 90% of my gains for this month in a two day period and I dont care as much as I think I should.

Is it because I have a hidden desire to fail?..I dont see how this is possible because I'm totally addicted to the markets, and take my trading seriously.

What do you think?

- nathan

Nathan,

We are all addicted junkies. That is what happen when you give a mouse electric shock and piece of food randomly when it push a button, the mouse will shock itself to death. It's not a problem if we win more than we lose. Until you are sure what's going on, trade very little or don't trade at all.

I don't trade stocks. Have you look at SpyderTrader's Journal? I think "FEW" of their elements are valuable... Keep your mind open but don't get too religious. If something doesn't work, throw it away like any other piece of junk. Ask yourself can some of their elements be applied in other manner and why it could work? I remember dougcs there who is more creative. Good luck.

Regards,
William