Is DayTrading Stocks Even Worth it Anymore?

[bungrider]

Quote from lundy:

your wrong about daytrading becoming popular or starting up because of the bubble or some other market events.

daytrading came about because of electronic marketplaces.

man, that is so true.

"if you build it, they will come"

amen to that

kinda like now with computers and all this charting software that's out there for like $100/month, it seems like everybody who trades these electronic markets looks at charts or has some fancy, technical strategy behind it...i mean, sh!t - i saw a tradestation commercial on bloomberg TV this morning...i hardly ever turn on BTV, but the last time i did it was the "I'm a scalper!" commercial for rjt.com, and now we have tradestation for the masses...

this business has come a long way...

just my thoughts...

 

[momotrdr]

Account: $30k base at all times. 120K intraday buying power.

Trades Jan 7th, 2003 PST NQ E-mini 1-contract

8:47 L 1065
8:55 S 1067 +2.0

9:04 L 1073
9:09 S 1078 +5.0

9:15 L 1079
9:18 S 1077.50 -1.5

9:18 S 1077.50
9:33 C 1069 +8.5

9:34 S 1067
9:41 C 1069 -2.0

9:46 S 1068.50
9:58 C 1061 +7.5

9:59 L 1061.50
1100 S 1072.50 +9.0

12:54 L 1077
13:12 S 1081 +4.0

14:22 S 1075.50
14:43 C 1070.50 +5.0


Total:

37.5 pts.

$750 -before tax/ comms.


I'd say trading the market these days CAN be very profitable
for those that know what they are doing.


best-


momo

Quote from tatertrader:

Serious question - damn serious and I hope a few will share their experiences. And by "Daytrading" I mean - trading stocks - NYSE & NASDAQ, flat every night, starting out with about $25k of buying power.

Is Daytrading, either for yourself or a Prop firm a viable business any more? It seems that since the heady days of the bubble, daily explosive IPO's and all that money flowing through the NASDAQ and other markets has dried up - so has the opportunity to Daytrade profitably.

To be precise - is it possible to enter the field, commit yourself and your capital and have a reasonable chance of success?

Now before all the chant's of. "90% fail" and "it ain't for you if you can't take the risk" etc.... what I'm hoping for is some perspective based on first hand EXPERIENCE - of those who have tried, succeeded, and/or failed to daytrade for a living over the past 2 years.

FWIW - My own sense of the picture is that there is no worthwhile opportunity to daytrade on a consistently profitable basis - that the opportunity for Daytrading was created by the anomaly of a Stock Market exploding out of all proportion to reality. Sure a few guys hang on, a rare bird even makes a good chunk now and then, but over a year or two the opportunity to maintain profitably is so slim as to be virtually nonexistent.

It seems to me that the people who make a living trading are making their money swing trading over a much longer horizon, or they are trading a wider variety of instruments from e-mini's to currencies, etc....


What do you guys think?

 

[tatertrader]

Quote from momotrdr:

Account: $30k base at all times. 120K intraday buying power.

Trades Jan 7th, 2003 PST NQ E-mini 1-contract

Great - but I see you are trading E-mini's not NYSE or NASDAQ stocks which my post is all about.

Would you feel the same way if you were limited to Daytrading NASDAQ or NYSE?

 

[sammybea]

in a word.. daytrading is stocks is simply not worth it. If you can get decent job paying 70+, then take it. However its a different story if you want to daytrade the minis. Less bs, more margin.. its like the old dot com days.

 

[SethArb]

"Total:
37.5 pts.
$750 -before tax/ comms."

thats a super day considering there was not an incredible amount
of movement compared to today and monday

were you profitable monday and today so far ?

its ok if you do not reply ...

 

[cornholetrading]

Quote from daytr8r:

i am very confident that i can grind out enough to live off of and pay my bills. i am less confident that i will be able to get rich off of trading. i'm constantly evaluating and re-evaluating my methods. it's tough right now, but i would much rather trade for a living then just about anything else i could think of.

I think that has hit a lot of the people recently who have been able to make money in the current market. They are able to pay the bills and some are able to still afford nice lifestyles, but they are not currently making the type of money that would make someone rich. Some of the people that I know that were raking it in for 4 months suddenly hit a wall and would go months of losing because they would not change. So making bill paying money is great if we are getting thru a rough period in the market but kind of scary unless you have a cushion because you never know when the slump comes.

 

[mama]

Today we're witnessing large moves in both Nazi and Dow...however, it seems individual stocks are not moving much?!


AOL 14.00 -0.16
C 36.79 -0.19
CSCO 14.60 – 0.00
DELL 28.36 -0.29
DJ 44.10 -0.86
GE 25.53 -0.37
HPQ 20.10 0.15
IBM 84.70 -1.30
INTC 16.74 -0.62
KO 44.14 -0.22
MSFT 54.58 -1.22
NOK 15.71 -0.91
ORCL 12.24 -0.45
PFE 30.93 -0.70
QQQ 26.07 -0.58
T 27.48 0.47
WMT 50.39 -0.07
XOM 34.97 -0.18
YHOO 18.83 -0.32

 

[SethArb]

I made 1200 % on my acct in 2000

however last 2 yrs I have only made 40 % on my acct

so I would almost agree with you that daytrading is much tougher
now

I am trying to adapt and learn new tricks

as the returns I made almost risk free in 2000 doing arb
are probably never going to return again

based on the current rules and consolidation of ecns

 

[momotrdr]

Tat-


I take equilavent positions in the QQQ when I take a positon
in the NQ. Typically, 1,000 shares in the underlying asset,
as I take a position first in the Futures.

If you are Day trading individual stocks in this market......just keep pulling the trigger on the gun pointed to your head.
Eventually, you'll get to the chamber with the bullet.


FWIW, don't waste your time on stocks. There is much more
money to be made CONSISTENTLY in the Futures market.

Do some simple math for yourself and track the spreads. You'll
quickly see that the liquidity of the NQ or ES for that matter will
speak for itself.


-momo

Quote from tatertrader:



Great - but I see you are trading E-mini's not NYSE or NASDAQ stocks which my post is all about.

Would you feel the same way if you were limited to Daytrading NASDAQ or NYSE?

 

[tatertrader]

Quote from SethArb:

I made 1200 % on my acct in 2000

however last 2 yrs I have only made 40 % on my acct

so I would almost agree with you that daytrading is much tougher
now

Thanks for the informative reply Seth!

Question - are you strictly Daytrading Stocks or are you trading over a longer horizon, and trading other instruments/markets?

Could you envision starting out at a Prop firm in this market with say, $30 to $50k buying power and make a living if all you had to trade was the NAS or NYSE ?